Lyle,
I see I can offer you nothing new that you don't already know about. Since
I'm not a researcher of any professional standing, that should not be
surprising. But I offered what little I know on the subject. I haven't read
about the privy pits in London, but have read about the slops tossed out of
upstair rooms to the detriment of those walking below.
In the story I wrote about Pocahontas visiting Jamestown accompanied by the
reader of the story, I make some point of having Pocahontas and guest notice
the smelly condition of the Jamestown gang who tried to drink the brackish
water of the James but didn't bother to bath in it.
http://www.educationalsynthesis.org/books/History/Pocahontas.html
I was talking to a woman who had written and published a book called D'Arcy,
about a young man who came to Jamestown on one of the later shiploads to
replenish those who'd died in the Starving Time, and mentioned to her that
my story included the smelliness of the settlers. She immediately bristled,
and pointed out that Pocahontas was equally smelly to the white invaders
because she kept herself well toned with bear grease. I myself have never
smelled bear grease, so I really cannot say that the scents are equally
offensive. Much probably depends on how fresh the bear grease was - I
suspect that it got smellier the longer it hung around.
I've been reading this evening from Jon Kukla's book on Jefferson's Women,
and wonder if it was Sally's role to emply TJ chamberpot each day, and where
it was dumped. It would certainly not have been likely to dump it out the
window. Maybe that is a good question for the Monticello folks to answer -
how was the offal of the many folks who lived at Monticello put away from
discerning noses.
Anne
Anne Pemberton
[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/apembert
http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: Jefferson's Overseer
> On May 6, 2008, at 12:28 AM, Anne Pemberton wrote:
>
>> Lyle,
>>
>> In his narratives (I'd have to look it up to cite a page), John Smith
>> mentions that the invaders were sometimes shot when the were outside the
>> fort performing "natural functions" which I recognized as going to the
>> bathroom.
> Yes, I've been aware of that one for the last 40 or so years, but the
> problem is just the casual mention. For a truly hilarious account, you
> should read an article published in 1937 in The Speculum entitled
> "Latrines and Cesspools of Medieval London". In medieval towns, the top 2
> percenter houses had both wells and privy pits dug in the back yard. I've
> excavated wells that cut through old privy pits. No wonder the average
> life expectancy was in the 40's.
>>
>>
>> And, yes, Smith did not go into anything about a lot of Native ways. If
>> you read some of Helen Roundtree's books you can get a better view of
>> some of them,
> Done that as well, but it still is dependent upon what was written and
> then attempting to parse that. Her work is excellent but what she has to
> work with isn't by any means all-encompassing. And thanks to the total
> lack of attention to bio-archaeology, the vast majority of the Late
> Woodland Palisaded village excavations didn't examine the soils within
> pits to determine whether they had a partial use as privy pits.
> Basically, it's an unknown, unfortunately.
>
>> but I don't remember her mentioning toileting, but she put some details
>> on their daily baths in the nearby rivers and creeks.
> That would be a pleasant contrast with the English who who typically
> bathed once or twice a year. But, without those smelly folks, we wouldn't
> have perfume or deodorant now either, so from not so pleasant things,
> sometimes better things do emerge.
>
>> She also provides a more realistic picture of the Huskanaw ceremony that
>> Smith and companions thought was murder of the children. Apparently they
>> gave used no logic to come to that conclusion since the tribe could not
>> continue if the males were routinely killed at puberty. Sure, the
>> mothers cried - you see the same thing every September outside an
>> elementary school when the mothers send their darlings to Kindergarten
>> for the first time. The mothers cry all the way home, but the children
>> turn off the tears almost as soon as Mama is out of sight.
> If I remember correctly, some of the folks going through the ritual did
> indeed die from it. It wasn't sitting around a campfire singing either.
> If you read the literature on some of them, it definitely weeded out the
> lesser able members of the group. Not quite as currently relative as you
> might have been led to believe, eh?
>
> Lyle
>>
>>
>> Anne
>>
>> Anne Pemberton
>> [log in to unmask]
>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
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