While it is difficult not to project our values onto historic  
figures, in my mind it is unreasonable to do anything else. People  
have to function within the historic context they inhabit, not the  
one we wish had been the case. For instance, Cristobal Colon really  
did think he was on a mission from God. And the vast majority of his  
actions, attitudes, and behavior were entirely consistent with when  
he lived. There are a few people who manage to transcend their time  
and indoctrination, but even those often fall short of our 21st  
century expectations.

George Washington is one who I think did a pretty good job.  
Discarding him solely because he was a slave owner borders on petty.  
Most men of his his position in the South were slave owners. I do not  
accept that there were no good white males in the South prior to  
emancipation. It should also be remembered that while the South  
provided the market for slaves, it was the North and the British who  
provided the ships.

While I disagree with Lee's decision to fight for Virginia,  (given  
the disparity in manpower, but especially in economic power it can be  
argued he only prolonged the inevitable), other than that it is hard  
to find fault with the man. And his actions after the war, go a long  
way toward "reforming" him in my mind.

Of course I have to admit that I am a Lee, and therefor suspect in  
terms of loyalties. However, my direct ancestor PVT Benjamin Franklin  
Lee (18th Iowa Volunteer Infantry Regiment) died 8JAN1863 as a result  
of wounds received during the Battle of Springfield, Missouri the day  
before. His brothers, John and Furman, were officers in the Union  
Army. Furman was captured and spent much of the war in Texas (he  
escaped three times). John was with Grant at Vicksburg (reportedly  
sharing a drink with the general) and served under Sherman in the  
Georgia campaign. Yes there were Lees who were Damn-Yankees. My  
grandfather, RAdm Robert C. Lee, is buried in Arlington not far from  
the Kennedys. As far as I know the Brothers' side of the family were  
all Damn-Yankees.

James Brothers, RPA
[log in to unmask]



On Mar 4, 2007, at 15:12, Clara Callahan wrote:

> Well said.
>
> Sunshine49 <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  IMO looking for the  
> perfect hero, one with no human flaws, is a
> fool's errand and a very adolescent way of looking at life. The child
> growing out of the certainty of mom and dad being all -powerful goes
> thru a cynical phase of what a clueless pair they both are, they're
> hopeless, once s/he awakens to the fact that they are human beings.
> We seem to have taken on that attitude in our culture at large. Many
> people of all races and backgrounds have, when times demanded,
> sacrificed and risen above themselves to achieve good things for
> others. They were certainly not perfect, no saints [heck, even what
> we consider saints had their flaws]. So what? Consider without a G.
> Washington, warts and all, we could have selected a leader who would
> have gone on and done what the King of England never expected
> Washington to turn down- and we'd be ruled by a monarchy today. So
> when GW was young he had ideas typical of his day and age? So he had
> flaws, even into adulthood? He also was a great man who gave much for
> his country, more than most of us here would, and thanks to him [and
> other flawed men of his day], we were give the opportunity to become
> the nation we are today. Yes, flawed tho we are. Welcome to the
> group, but geez, let's have nothing more to do with this about GW,
> not even put him on a dollar coin, because he had flaws?! Where is
> your sense of history as well as your sense of perspective? Go and
> find us one person anywhere at any time in history who was perfect
> enough to grace a dollar US coin. You won't find anyone- even Jesus
> in his day had his detractors. The man picks corn on the Sabbath? He
> ran amok in the Temple? Do we want to set him up as an example to our
> children? No!
>
> Nancy
>
> -------
> The alchemy of a changing life is the only truth.
>
> -Rumi
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2007, at 10:32 AM, Paul Heinegg wrote:
>
>> I just joined this discussion (and discussion group), so I may be
>> missing the point. What did African American slaves' ability to
>> overthrow their oppressors say about the institution of slavery? As
>> Douglas Deal pointed out and as John Brown's raid and the Civil War
>> proved, it was no easy task.
>>
>> How can we still be discussing whether or not African Americans
>> accepted their situation and the level of their mistreatment? It
>> reminds me of that fellow in New York State who kidnapped young
>> women and held them for years in his basement where he continually
>> raped them. On being captured he saw no wrong in what he had done
>> and explained how well he fed and treated them and how much they
>> came to accept their life.
>>
>> The recent apology by Virginia lawmakers is a great stride forward
>> in acknowledging the horrible effects of slavery on African
>> Americans, but it says nothing about the men and the civilization
>> that perpertrated it.
>>
>> Throughout history men have raped, subjected to forced labor, and
>> terribly mistreated other people they considered their fellow human
>> beings. However, slavery in the U.S. was something all together
>> different.
>>
>> White men, including supposedly brilliant leaders, owned other
>> human beings that they degraded to such a low level that they were
>> considered property--like a horse, a cow, a chair, a table! What
>> sort of human beings would still be doing this in a supposedly
>> civilized country in the nineteenth century? If the country that
>> was doing this did not happen to be our own, we would call them
>> uncivilized barbarians.
>>
>> The U.S. mint plans a new $1 coin with George Washington's image on
>> the front. Is this the sort of person we want our children to
>> emulate? He may have never told a lie, but after a battle with an
>> Indian tribe in the French and Indian War, he wrote of the Indians,
>> "They are human in form only" [James W. Loewen, Lies My Teacher
>> Told Me]. Washington illegally shuttled his slaves from
>> Philadelphia to Mount Vernon so he would not have to manumit any of
>> them and he still held them at his death, sixteen years after
>> acknowledging the evil of slavery. His will freed them but only
>> after the death of his wife.
>>
>> Which white men who had the moral fortitude to free their slaves
>> during their lifetimes do we acknowledge as great men? How many
>> average Americans can name any? How many historians can name any?
>> Paul
>>
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
>> instructions
>> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the  
> instructions
> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the  
> instructions
> at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html


To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html