On May 8, 2012, at 4:50 PM, John Philip Adams wrote:
> A couple of issues
> 1. Cost of feeding and clothing your slaves. Raising kids is really
> expensive, so why would feeding, clothing, medical, training and management
> of farm personnel be cheaper than a couple of cotton gins and cotton
> pickers.
Pure amoral capitalism has spoken to that in the 20th century. The "Kill a mule, hire a mule" syndrome operated after slavery and also operated where no slaves had ever been, ie, in the manufacturing centers of the north that operated using cheap European immigrant labor, including children and women. Coal mining interests in PA had their own pernicious form of debt slavery in that if a miner died, his family was stuck with his debts and had to work them off in the mines.
BUT, has anyone done a direct economic comparison to see what the actual costs of owning one slave were, removing purchase price from the equation and with that in the equation as comparables? Housing, food, clothing, medical, training and management (that would be the overseer with all of the same costs plus wages). Surely some economic historian must have sat down and worked out the costs.
I would have thought that post-1865 labor costs could be used as comparable figures? Unfortunately, share-cropping would seem to interfere.
> 3. Besides, the training and education of the slaves was forced upon
> even the most reluctant white farm owner.
Training and education are meant here as direct vocational training as in how to be an efficient farm worker, rather than the 3 R's. The knowledge base for agricultural production is simply put a trade for which there is a learning curve and when one has finished apprenticeship, there is some hard-earned info in those who have had it.
>
> 6. lastly, the population was escaping the eastern problems and moving
> to the Midwest. Native American problems or not, the population was voting
> with their feet, black and white, by escaping the age old problems of the
> east.
> Texas was a great melting pot then, as it is today.
I will then have to move my mid and upper Mid-west to include the southern mid-west as well, at least those parts that were arable.
I have contacted John Deer and Case IH to see what their archives have, but the preliminary look is that the mechanization of farming was driven by small families in exploding numbers from the arable lands east of the Rockies to the western slopes of the Appalachians who had small farms and actively pursued mechanized farming methods in order to put food on the table and to farm more land for profits. There are physical limits to what people labor (husband, wife, kids, neighbor groups/cooperatives) could accomplish, even with the Second Revolution of adding horse drawn equipment to the mix. Until mechanized farming took over, the production jump-shift was a non-event and would not have happened. The mechanization of farming would seem to have spread from there into the rest of the country. It took until past the 1950's for it to be pervasive in the South but it did happen.
Lyle Browning
> John P. Adams
> Texas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jeff Southmayd
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:41 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: The Peculiar Institution's End Without The Intervention Of The
> Civil War
>
> I would think based on accounts of how expensive slaves were to purchase and
> provide for, and accounts of how lazy and shiftless many were, Southerners
> would be pleased to substitute technology for the problems and expense
> involved in keeping slaves in their work force. With a ready market like
> Brazil for the sale of their slaves, they would have an out to recoup what
> they had into their slaves. While there may not have been a widespread
> movement for emancipation in the South, there was a widespread discussion on
> what to do with the burgeoning slave population which was becoming more and
> more problematic, to the extent that the northern Southern states were
> moving away from slavery and selling them to the deep Southern states.
>
> SOUTHMAYD & MILLER4 OCEAN RIDGE BOULEVARD SOUTH PALM COAST, FLORIDA 32137
> 386.445.9156
> 888.557.3686 FAX
>
> [log in to unmask]
> **********************************************************
> THIS TRANSMISSION IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE ADDRESSEE SHOWN ABOVE. IT MAY
> CONTAIN INFORMATION THAT IS PRIVILEGED, CONFIDENTIAL, OR OTHERWISE PROTECTED
> FROM DISCLOSURE. IF YOU ARE NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, PLEASE DO NOT READ,
> COPY, OR USE IT, AND DO NOT DISCLOSE IT TO OTHERS. PLEASE NOTIFY THE SENDER
> OF THE DELIVERY ERROR BY REPLYING TO THIS MESSAGE AND THEN DELETE IT FROM
> YOUR SYSTEM. THANK YOU.
> ********************************************************
>
>> Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 10:44:50 -0700
>> From: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: The Peculiar Institution's End Without The Intervention
>> Of The Civil War
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>
>> much different set of facts. Indian removal involved about 30,000 persons,
> overland, over a period of time. Many self-removed before the infamous
> forced removals. Plus they provided their own transport.
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "Kimball, Gregg (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 8, 2012 1:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] The Peculiar Institution's End Without The
>> Intervention Of The Civil War
>>
>> Where did the United States find the money to remove Native Americans to
> the West? As Bill Freehling has pointed out, it at least demonstrates that
> the national government had the political will to execute a removal program
> given the right incentives. I freely admit that there were many differences
> in the two circumstances, but it gave a certain veneer of plausibility to
> colonization.
>>
>> Gregg Kimball
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Finkelman, Paul
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:05 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] The Peculiar Institution's End Without The
>> Intervention Of The Civil War
>>
>> Hard to imagine where would have found the ships and money for a mass
> exodus to Liberia.
>>
>> ========================================
>>
>> Paul Finkelman
>> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law Albany Law
>> School
>> 80 New Scotland Avenue
>> Albany, NY 12208
>>
>> 518-445-3386 (p)
>> 518-445-3363 (f)
>>
>> [log in to unmask]
>> www.paulfinkelman.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Craig Kilby
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 12:34 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] The Peculiar Institution's End Without The
>> Intervention Of The Civil War
>>
>> I wrote that, and it was in connection Lincoln's initial plan to send
> freed slaves to Liberia. I clearly stated that that was veering off topic of
> this thread. Lincoln abandoned that plan due to vocal opposition from the
> black community.
>>
>> That sentence was part of a larger "conjecture" of how slavery would
>> have ended had the South won, whenever it ended, if it would ever end
>> (and it surely would.)
>>
>> Craig Kilby
>>
>> On May 7, 2012, at 11:53 PM, Finkelman, Paul
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> One post suggested that "hundreds of thousands of blacks" might have
> gone to Liberia? On what boats? How many ships were around to move them?
> Who would pay for it?
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>> ______________________________________
>> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the
>> instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> ______________________________________
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
> http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
______________________________________
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe please see the instructions at
http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
|
