MR FINKELMAN,
SO, YOU'RE SAYING THAT SOME RACISTS WERE BETTER RACISTS THAN OTHER RACISTS?
DFM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Finkelman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 6:55 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: "common-sense Jeffersonian conservative principles"
> Dear Ms. Mills:
>
> I just posted something along these lines; I guess is has not yet
> surfaced; in case it got lost in cyberspace, I append it to this message.
>
> =================
>
> we debate these issues every few years. For a long discussion of how
> Jefferson helped invent scientific racism, look at the last two chapters
> of my book, SLAVERY AND THE FOUNDERS: RACE AND LIBERTY IN THE AGE OF
> JEFFERSON, 2nd ed. 2001. In that book I judge Jefferson by the
> standards of his own time; compared to many other founders, Jefferson
> does not fare well. I think Jefferson should be judged the standards of
> his own time; compare his view on race to those of Washington, Franklin,
> Hamilton, Adams, as well as his many European friends, or John and Henry
> Laurens in South Carolina, or LaFayette.
> As for the Indian removal. I don't have the cite handy but shortly
> after buying Louisiana he proposed moving Indians out of hte Southeast
> and shipping them west.
>
> TJ may have believed rocks could not fall from the sky, but he could not
> consuct the experiment. He also believed that the blood of blacks was
> darker than the blood of whites, that they smelled worse than whites,
> and that the were incapable of forming loving relationships like whites.
> Over the course of his adult life he owned more than 400 slaves; and he
> could certainly have observed many things about them. He sold off more
> than 80 in a ten year period (contrast this to Washington who never sold
> a slave or Madison who only sold a few to neighbors late in life when he
> literally could not afford to maintain them). Surley while selling off
> these slaves he would have been able to observe how the slaves felt
> about the destruction of their families. Washington said you do not
> take men to market like cattle. Jefferson sent scores to market like
> cattle. I agree, judge him by the standards of his own world. When his
> neighbor Edward Coles wanted to free his slaves, Jefferson told him not
> to do it and refused to take a public stand supporting either private
> manumissions or gradual abolition. When his friend St. George Tucker
> (the law professor at William and Mary and a judge) proposed a scheme
> for ending slavery in Va. Jefferson refused to endorse it, or come up
> with one of his own.
>
> Yes, I agree completely. Judge him against the best of his generation.
>
>
> =================
>
> [log in to unmask] wrote:
>
> >MR FINKELMAN,
> >I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHO, IN YOUR ILLUSTRIOUS OPINION, MIGHT NOT HAVE
BEEN A "THOROUGH GOING RACIST" OR, FOR THAT MATTER, JUST A PLAIN, LONG, OLD,
REGULAR RACIST, IN THE 18TH CENTURY WESTERN WORLD. DO YOU SUPPOSE THAT IF
YOU HAD BEEN ALIVE IN THE 18TH CENTURY, WITHOUT THE BENEFIT OF THE HINDSIGHT
OF A 21ST CENTURY PERSON, YOU JUST MIGHT POSSIBLY HAVE BEEN A TYPICAL,
AVERAGE, NORMAL WHITE MAN WHO PRESUMED, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE (EXCEPT THE MAN
OF COLOR), THAT THE WHITE RACE WAS THE SUPERIOR RACE?
> >GIVE ME A BREAK: EVERYONE WAS A THOROUGH GOING RACIST BACK THEN.
EVERYONE!
> >DEANE MILLS
> >13TH GENERATION (PROVEN) VIRGINIAN
> >
> >
> >
> >>Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 3:24 PM
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Re: "common-sense Jeffersonian conservative principles"
> >he was a thorough going
> >
> >
> >>>racist, who believed that blacks were mentally inferior to whites, and
> >>>he wanted to remove all Indians to someplace else (like where I live);
> >>>he invented the Indian removal.
> >>>
> >>>Unlike modern conservaitves, he believed in balanced budgets and worked
> >>>at them; he was a free trader, except when it came to the Embargo
> >>>against Haiti and then Europe.
> >>>
> >>>Unlike moderns conservatives, he believed in a small military and
> >>>avoided military adventurism whenever possible.
> >>>
> >>>And, unlike modern Consrvatives and Republicnas, he did, to his great
> >>>credit, believe in religious freedom and a strict separation of Church
> >>>and State.
> >>>
> >>>Finally, of course, he believed in racial subordination and slavery. I
> >>>will refrain from commenting on whether that fits with the
> >>>administration or Sen. Allen
> >>>
> >>>Paul Finkelman
> >>>
> >>>
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> >
>
> --
> Paul Finkelman
> Chapman Distinguished Professor of Law
> University of Tulsa College of Law
> 3120 East 4th Place
> Tulsa, OK 74104-3189
>
> 918-631-3706 (office)
> 918-631-2194 (fax)
>
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