Anita,

Your question regarding Europeans enslaving Indians reminds me that I, too, have an unanswered questions from a posting I made earlier this year.

Date:     Fri, 11 May 2007 07:32:33 -0700 (PDT)
From:    "qvarizona" <[log in to unmask]>  
Subject  :Re: Official Opposition Events against Jamestown 2007

Just curious.  How is it possible that of those protesting the celebration of Jamestown can completely ignore what went on in this area  before the Europeans arrived?   Are they unaware of Wahunsonacock and his conquests?  Have they not read of the raids conducted by the Monacans and Mannahoacs on their enemies, the Powhatans?  Do they know about the Chesapeakes  who lived at the entrance to the bay later named for them and were wiped out --man, woman, child--  when they tried to resist being absorbed into the Tsenacommach?  
_______________________

Foul treatment of the Indians --which included slavery--  was a  cross-cultural problem in Virginia --and around the world-- long before  "discovery" by Europeans or any influence by  Islam on worldwide  slavery.  To try to limit and/or  assign the  blame on any one group is pointless unless we're learning something that might help toward putting a stop to slavery now.  


Joanne Kartak




Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]> wrote: My question is what did Islam have to do with Europeans enslaving Indians? 
No one seems to want to answer that.

Anita
>From: macbd1 
>Reply-To: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history         
>      
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance, etc.)
>Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2007 11:06:13 -0500
>
>Let's not be so kind.
>
>While European involvement in the Transatlantic slave trade to the Americas
>(that included Virginia) lasted for just over three centuries, the Arab
>involvement in slave trade lasted *fourteen* centuries, and in some parts 
>of
>the Muslim world is still continuing to this day.  Over 28 Million Africans
>have been enslaved in the Muslim world during this time, with some 
>estimates
>being 'much' higher.  A comparison of the Muslim slave trade to the 
>American
>slave trade reveals some interesting contrasts.
>
>While two out of every three slaves shipped across the Atlantic were men,
>the proportions were reversed in the Muslim slave trade. Two women for 
>every
>man were enslaved by the Muslims.
>
>While the mortality rate for slaves being transported across the Atlantic
>was as high as 10%, the percentage of slaves dying in transit in the
>Transsahara and East African slave trade was between 80 and 90%!
>
>While almost all the slaves shipped across the Atlantic were for
>agricultural work, most of the slaves destined for the Muslim Middle East
>were for sexual exploitation as concubines, in harems, and for military
>service.
>
>While many children were born to slaves in the Americas, and millions of
>their descendants are citizens in Brazil and the USA to this day, very few
>descendants of the slaves that ended up in the Middle East survive.  (Maybe
>they were just "incorporated into society," huh??)
>
>While most slaves who went to the Americas could marry and have families,
>most of the male slaves destined for the Middle East were castrated, and
>most of the children born to the women were killed at birth.
>
>Of the estimated 11 million Africans transported across the Atlantic (the
>actual number is debatable), approximately 95% went to South and Central
>America, mainly to Portuguese, Spanish and French possessions.
>'Only' 4-5% of the total were transported to what was to become
>The United States. (It seems terrible to discuss slavery in statistical 
>terms.)
>
>While Christian Reformers spearheaded the antislavery abolitionist 
>movements
>in Europe and North America, and Great Britain mobilized her Navy,
>throughout most of the 19th Century, to intercept slave ships and set
>captives free, there was no comparable opposition to slavery within the
>Muslim world.
>
>Even after Britain outlawed the slave trade in 1807 and Europe abolished 
>the
>slave trade in 1815, Muslim slave traders enslaved a further 2 million
>Africans. This despite vigorous British Naval activity and military
>intervention to limit the Muslim slave trade.
>
>By some calculations the number of victims of the 14 centuries of Muslim
>slave trade could exceed 180 million. Nearly 100 years after President
>Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation in America, and 130
>years after all slaves within the British Empire were set free by
>parliamentary decree, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, in 1962, and Mauritania in
>1980, begrudgingly removed legalized slavery from their statute books.
>
>And this only after international pressure was brought to bear. Today
>numerous international organizations (and news media) document that slavery
>in its worst terms still continues in some Muslim countries -- like Darfur,
>Sudan, Somalia, Mauritania and Chad among others.
>
>Much of the above statistical data from Assyrian International News 
>Agency's
>study of many sources, some of which are available online.
>http://www.aina.org/
>
>My feelings about slavery was posted 3/2/07 during a prior thread 
>concerning
>WPA Slave Narratives, see copy far below.  With such strongly felt emotions
>against slavery then and now, by many (including Southerners), wouldn't
>Virginian historians and members at this list be better served to take
>positive action against slavery yet existing in today's Muslim world than
>trying to squeeze more and more out of apologies by today's society, 
>whether
>or not their ancestors were slave owners?  Emotions by common citizens of
>our Southen States during the sorry times of our nation's Civil War 
>involved
>more than slavery.  It seems, for some, that 'something' will always be
>lacking from today's apologies, including that of Virginia's
>legislature....it's never quite enough....
>
>With history discussions at this list repeating 'identical' topics and 
>commentary
>about slavery, WPA slave narratives, etc quite often, a young visitor might
>wonder whether anything else happened in Virginia's past.
>
>Neil McDonald
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Heinegg" 

>To: 
>Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 6:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Islamic Slavery (was Re: Slavery and immoral stance,
>etc.)
>
>
>>If you read Lovejoy or other works that discuss the Islamic trade in
>>slaves
>>from Africa to the Middle East, you may be--as I was--amazed to learn the
>>huge numbers
>>that were involved.
>>-------------
>>Segal estimates it to be about the same as the Atlantic trade, but it took
>>place over eight centuries+.
>>
>>Many of the men were eunuchs. It is estimated that 1 in 200 potential
>>eunuchs made it alive to their destinations. Those that survived were
>>greatly revered in Muslim society, some becoming generals, heads of state,
>>etc. In the early 20th century when eunuchs entered the tramcars in
>>Istanbul, all Turks would stand and greet them, and remain standing until
>>they took their seat.
>>
>>The survival rate from walking 2,500 miles across the Sahara from West
>>Africa to Egypt or Northern Africa was, as you might imagine, much worse
>>than the survival rate in the Atlantic trade on ships.
>>
>>Under pressure from the British the Turks closed the slave market in
>>Istanbul in 1846, but in 1855 "the head of the Muslim community in Mecca
>>issued a fatwa declaring that the ban was a breach of Islamic holy law and
>>that the Turks were apostates and heathens upon whom it was obligatory to
>>wage holy war." Slavery was still legal in Saudi in the 1950s and
>>continued
>>to some extent into the 1980s. It was replaced by hiring Filipino and
>>Indian
>>"house maids." When I worked in Saudi, I used to hear my Saudi work mates
>>joking about taking advantage of their maids.
>>
>>I think the South has the same problem as the Saudis. Emancipation was
>>enforced. The recent state legislature apologies to African Americans for
>>the damage slavery did to the African American community both before and
>>after slavery is a great stride toward ridding the soul of those past
>>actions. The only thing that is lacking in the apologies is the
>>acknowledgement of how wrong it was for their white ancestors in the 1860s
>>to still be fighting to maintain slavery. One wonders when they would have
>>agreed to emancipation if left to their own devices.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "macbd1" 
>To: 
>Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 1:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Slave Narrative for WPA Project
>
>
>>How can we allow, let alone participate in, such a bland discussion about
>>basic human rights, where some even believe, or rather 'say,' that slaves
>>were apparently happy with their plight.  Human slavery and traumatic
>>family upheaval and transportation, is/was such an abomination, so
>>demeaning, so  basically inhuman, so cruel, so wrong, so unacceptable.
>>Freedom with liberty for all is man's ultimate way (it's sad that I feel 
>>inclined
>>to add for this forum, meaning all of humankind.)  Read the words and 
>>minds
>>of those who violently rebelled, those who ran away, those who had the 
>>will
>>and found the means for obtaining freedom or death, those who sacrificed
>>so much in so many ways, to truly understand.  Do the same for the many
>>individuals who helped the rebels and runaways.  Think about words of the
>>old hymn, 'Free at Last,' and interpretations of many other 'old Negro
>>spirituals' (historical context) of the early/mid 19th century.  Read 
>>other
>>sources, many on-line, for personal letters by slaves and ex-slaves.  Look
>>inside yourself and extrapolate the dots.
>>
>>Should we expect ex-slaves to have exclaimed:  I believe it is
>>self-evident, that all men are created equal, that we are endowed, by our
>>Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, 
>>Liberty,
>>and the pursuit of Happiness -- and, by God, never forget as to prevent
>>slavery's recurrence or appearance elsewhere!
>>
>>Some conclusions simply don't require much discussion, IMHO.
>>
>>Neil McDonald
>>
>>An old Scotch-Irishman
>>having early/mid-19th century ancestors
>>just above Ripley, Ohio.

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