we debate these issues every few years.  For a long discussion of how
Jefferson helped invent scientific racism, look at the last two chapters
of my book, SLAVERY AND THE FOUNDERS:  RACE AND LIBERTY IN THE AGE OF
JEFFERSON, 2nd ed. 2001.  In that book I judge Jefferson by the
standards of his own time; compared to many other founders, Jefferson
does not fare well.  I think Jefferson should be judged the standards of
his own time; compare his view on race to those of Washington, Franklin,
Hamilton, Adams, as well as his many European friends, or John and Henry
Laurens in South Carolina, or LaFayette.

As for the Indian removal.  I don't have the cite handy but shortly
after buying Louisiana  he proposed moving Indians out of hte Southeast
and shipping them  west.

TJ may have believed rocks could not fall from the sky, but he could not
consuct the experiment.  He also believed that the blood of blacks was
darker than the blood of whites, that they smelled worse than whites,
and that the were incapable of forming loving relationships like whites.
 Over the course of his adult life he owned more than 400 slaves; and he
could certainly have observed many things about them.  He sold off more
than 80 in a ten year period (contrast this to Washington who never sold
a slave or Madison who only sold a few to neighbors late in life when he
literally could not afford to maintain them).  Surley while selling off
these slaves he would have been able to observe how the slaves felt
about the destruction of their families.   Washington said you do not
take men to market like cattle.  Jefferson sent scores to market like
cattle.  I agree, judge him by the standards of his own world.  When his
neighbor Edward Coles wanted to free his slaves, Jefferson told him not
to do it and refused to take a public stand supporting either private
manumissions or gradual abolition.  When his friend St. George Tucker
(the law professor at William and Mary and a judge) proposed a scheme
for ending slavery in Va. Jefferson refused to endorse it, or come up
with one of his own.

Yes, I agree completely.  Judge him against the best of his generation.

Joan Brooks wrote:

> Can you provide a source for your statement that  Thomas Jefferson
> "invented
> Indian removal"?  I have not heard that one before.  I thought Indian
> removal, voluntary or involuntary, started in the 1600's.
>
> As to his beliefs that "blacks were mentally inferior to whites" and
> that he
> believed "in racial subordination and slavery," are you saying that TJ
> was
> not a man of his time and place in the world and with values of the
> Age of
> Enlightenment?  It is not fair to judge someone in America of 200+
> years ago
> as if he had the values of today's American society.
>
> TJ also believed that rocks could not fall from the sky in the 18th C.
> world.  We know those rocks are meteorites.
>
> Give TJ a break--- in spite of his wide experiences, interests, and
> education, he was human and thus flawed, inconsistent, and limited,
> just as
> we all are.
>
> Joan Logan Brooks
> a Southside Virginian through 11 proven generations
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Finkelman" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 04, 2005 3:24 PM
> Subject: [SPAM] Re: "common-sense Jeffersonian conservative principles"
>
>
>> Well, TJ was in favor of state's rights; using the state gov. rather
>> than the national govt. to prosecute your critics (see his Kentucky
>> Resolution and then the Croswell Case in the NY) but when he could not
>> get the states do his bidding he was willing to use the Fed. Gov. to
>> repress his critics (See U.S. v. Hudson and Goodwin); he believed in
>> strict constructin of the Constitution (except when it came to buying
>> Louisiana and imposing his embargo on Haiti); he was a thorough going
>> racist, who believed that blacks were mentally inferior to whites, and
>> he wanted to remove all Indians to someplace else (like where I live);
>> he invented the Indian removal.
>>
>> Unlike modern conservaitves, he believed in balanced budgets and worked
>> at them; he was a free trader, except when it came to the Embargo
>> against Haiti and then Europe.
>>
>> Unlike moderns conservatives, he believed in a small military and
>> avoided military adventurism whenever possible.
>>
>> And, unlike modern Consrvatives and  Republicnas, he did, to his great
>> credit, believe in religious freedom and a strict separation of Church
>> and State.
>>
>> Finally, of course, he believed in racial subordination and slavery.  I
>> will refrain from commenting on whether that fits with the
>> administration or Sen. Allen
>>
>> Paul Finkelman
>
>
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--
Paul Finkelman
Chapman Distinguished Professor of Law
University of Tulsa College of Law
3120 East 4th Place
Tulsa, OK   74104-3189

918-631-3706 (office)
918-631-2194 (fax)

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