Somewhere in my background, I learned that there are (at least) two
types of prejudice. One is culturally learned and somewhat shallow.
This can be modified by altering the laws of state and community. The
other is a personal, individual need to find a scapegoat to blame for
problems, the scapegoat chosen likely to be the race or ethnic group
denigrated by parents or other family members. This latter bias is not
easily rooted out because it requires a basic and individual personality
adjustment. It is fundamental to pass and enforce fair laws, but that
only solves part of the problem. Mary Miller
"Harold S. Forsythe" wrote:
>
> In the interest of not ending the discussion, I feel convinced to join Ann's church.
> There are regional differences in race relations and there are more
> than two races.
> I can remember being stunned when I encounter the racial
> feelings of people from the Pacific Northwest. I couldn't quite make
> out why it all seemed so strange, until I realized that the people
> whom I thought look most Caucasian were in fact Native
> Americans, and they were the underdogs.
> Richard Wright noted in American Hunger, written as the final
> seven chapters of Black Boy, but which Doubleday did not want to
> publish because they were about the North, that whites sat by him
> on public transportation in Chicago in the 1930s and took
> absolutely no notice. That did not mean that race did not matter.
> It just meant that the public regulation of race was different in
> Chicago and New York, than in the Mississippi and Tennessee that
> Wright knew better.
> Finally, during my first trip to Richmond to do research in 1992, I
> noticed that I was most often the only black person in a restaurant
> eating. Both black and white Virginians challenged me on that
> observation and it may have been my choice of restaurants, but I
> still feel puzzled by that fact. But then, of course, John, Brent, and
> the other folks from publications at the Library of Virginia swept me
> up, like they do every historian that passes through the stacks,
> and took me off the lunch and to meet people. And I forgot about
> who was in the restaurant and concentrated on the history talk and
> the commeraderie.
>
> Harold
>
> Date sent: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 13:30:27 -0400
> From: Bill Bryant <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Sherman etc.
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Send reply to: Bill Bryant <[log in to unmask]>
>
> > The only thing I can say to you Anne is, "you go to your church and I'll
> > go to mine". End of discussion.
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Anne Pemberton" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: Sherman etc.
> >
> >
> > > Douglas,
> > >
> > > I grew up in Reading, PA, and moved to Richmond in the
> > > mid-sixties, (hubby found a better paying job and we needed space from
> > > families) a bit more than a year before you left. In Reading, all
> > > schools were integrated, all public facilities were integrated, and when
> > > we gathered after school at the local soda shop, there was no problem
> > > getting service for everyone in the group. We could not have done that
> > > had I gone to school in Richmond. Yes, there was discrimination in
> > > housing, which is why so many of the race riots over housing took place
> > > in Northern states. When I was taking 12th grade government and getting
> > > all enthusiastic about the rights and responsibilities of being an
> > > American, the tv news showed people turning fire hoses on those who
> > > asked for this
> > to
> > > be. In my adolescent logic, I just dismissed it as not "really"
> > > happening in America ... Then I ended up in Virginia, and the reality
> > > was in my
> > face!
> > > I have had to make hard choices about my own values, and what I would
> > > and would not change along with the change in latitude and climate. It
> > > may be just my perception, but it seems it's been easier to maintain and
> > > practice those values since I moved from Richmond to a rural setting.
> > > But it may just be coincidence.
> > >
> > > The first year I worked with the little ones after years as a
> > high
> > > school teacher, I was delighted at the complete lack of racial identity
> > > until mid winter when Martin Luther King's birthday was celebrated and
> > > it seemed the kids' eyes were suddenly opened to their "nakedness" ... I
> > > didn't have words to console them .... but I was ready for it this past
> > > year ... I had made some web pages for the kids to use on holidays in
> > > the computer lab, and I made one for M. L. King's birthday ....
> > > http://www.geocities.com/apembert45/holidays/king.html with a wonderful
> > > animation as it opens with the background music "We Shall Overcome" ...
> > the
> > > kids loved the page, and each class found a pair of girls that could
> > almost
> > > look like the ones in the graphic, and it led to discussing that Dr.
> > > King would have been delighted to see today's children, as he once
> > > dreamed, sitting next to each other in schools, restaurants, and
> > > sporting events. They still asked why, and I still don't have an answer
> > > to that question.
> > >
> > > There is a great deal of difference between discrimination that
> > is
> > > de jure and that which is de facto. By law denies any recourse in the
> > > courts. Justice is denied.
> > >
> > > Anne
> > >
> > > At 09:35 AM 8/16/01 -0400, Douglas Deal wrote:
> > > >On Thu, 16 Aug 2001, Anne Pemberton wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Last year I taught fourth grade in summer school, including fourth
> > grade
> > > > > history, the history of Virginia, and was shocked to learn that
> > although
> > > > > the kids had learned about the Jim Crow laws, they had NOT been told
> > that
> > > > > these laws were in force only in southern states, and were NOT the
> > > > > law
> > in
> > > > > most of the country. Even with the little ones I usually work with
> > > > > (Kindergarten to 2nd grade) I find myself correcting what the kids
> > have
> > > > > learned, to understand that some of the evils overturned with Civil
> > and
> > > > > Human Rights movements, existed only in the South.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >I grew up in Tidewater Virginia (a bike ride away from the Fergusons,
> > > >one of whom was a high school classmate of mine) but left for college
> > > >in 1967 and have since then lived in Massachusetts and New York. The
> > > >Virginia I was leaving was still segregated in most respects, changes
> > > >in the law notwithstanding. I mention this in order to offer a
> > > >correction of Anne Pemberton's corrections (see above). Segregation and
> > > >racial
> > discrimination
> > > >were common in much of the North, even though they had no basis in the
> > > >statutory law of the northern states. The equal treatment laws (e.g.,
> > > >for public accommodations & transportation) that *were* passed in many
> > > >northern states were rarely enforced. De facto, if not de jure, blacks
> > > >were kept out of white neighborhoods, white schools, and the better
> > > >jobs. In short, racial discrimination and injustice were (and are)
> > > >national problems, not just southern ones.
> > > >
> > > >Doug Deal
> > > >History/SUNY-Oswego
> > > >[log in to unmask]
> > > >
> > > >To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > > >instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> > >
> > > Anne Pemberton
> > > [log in to unmask]
> > >
> > > http://www.erols.com/stevepem
> > > http://www.geocities.com/apembert45
> > >
> > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > > instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> > >
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
> > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
> Harold S. Forsythe
> Assistant Professor History
> Director: Black Studies
> Fairfield University
> Fairfield, CT 06430-5195
> (203) 254-4000 x2379
>
> To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
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