Good grief, people. Please stop automatically quoting the messages
you're responding to on this list. It makes for tortured reading.
Thank you.
Dr. Douglas Day
Executive Director
Albemarle Charlottesville Historical Society
200 Second St., NE
Charlottesville, VA 22902
434-296-1492
www.albemarlehistory.org
Automatic digest processor wrote:
>There are 18 messages totalling 1819 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>
> 1. Site to Check Out Before You Publish (5)
> 2. Mars
> 3. Information on the Chickahominy (6)
> 4. London Port Books - Colonial Records Project (6)
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:53:48 EDT
>From: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
><< Thank goodness there are others tired of this nonsense. Let's get back to
>
>History. >>
>
>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once deep=20
>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river behave=
>=20
>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as Aylett -=
> =20
>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper Chickahominy=20=
>area=20
>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost recor=
>ds=20
>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>
>Now, how 'bout a current event of true historic proportions. Did you know=20
>that you will be able to observe an event this summer that no one living has=
>=20
>ever observed; and no one living now will ever have an opportunity to observ=
>e=20
>again? Please see below.
>
>Joyce Browning
>Fairfax County, Virginia
>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>
>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is=20
>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest app=
>roach=20
>between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come thi=
>s=20
>close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs=
>=20
>its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close=
> to=20
>Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before=20
>it happens again.
>
>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within=20
>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest objec=
>t in the=20
>night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc=20
>seconds wide At a modest 75-power magnification
>
>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy=
>=20
>to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 p.m. and=20
>reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.
>
>By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at=20
>nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty=20
>convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history=
>. So,=20
>mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively=
>=20
>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>=A0
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:21:11 -0400
>From: "Barbara Vines Little, CG" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>It is possible that there are references in the Colonial Records project
>that would answer your question even though New Kent has lost so much.
>Although I believe that most are mid-1700s there are letters and account
>books in the Jerdonne Family papers, 1736--1918, available at Swem or in
>Series L, Reel 10 of the Southern Plantation papers that might shed some
>light on the subject.
>
>Barbara Vines Little, CG
>Dominion Research Services
>PO Box 1273
>Orange, VA 22960
>
>540-832-3473 (7-10 p.m.; all day Sunday)
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>[log in to unmask] wrote:
>
>
>
>>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>><< Thank goodness there are others tired of this nonsense. Let's get back to
>>
>>History. >>
>>
>>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once deep
>>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river behave
>>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as Aylett -
>>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper Chickahominy area
>>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost records
>>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>>
>>Now, how 'bout a current event of true historic proportions. Did you know
>>that you will be able to observe an event this summer that no one living has
>>ever observed; and no one living now will ever have an opportunity to observe
>>again? Please see below.
>>
>>Joyce Browning
>>Fairfax County, Virginia
>>- - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>>
>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is
>>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach
>>between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this
>>close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs
>>its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to
>>Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before
>>it happens again.
>>
>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the
>>night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc
>>seconds wide At a modest 75-power magnification
>>
>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy
>>to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 p.m. and
>>reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.
>>
>>By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at
>>nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty
>>convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
>>mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>>
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:33:08 -0400
>From: Jean Duke <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>You might check with the Mariner's Museum in Newport News to see if they
>have chart from the era. Eighteenth Century charts regularly recorded
>depths, and that would give you the answer. You might also check with the
>Observatory in Greenwich, England for the same info.
>
>Maurice Duke
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:53 AM
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>
>
>
>>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>><< Thank goodness there are others tired of this nonsense. Let's get back
>>to
>>
>>History. >>
>>
>>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once deep
>>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river
>>behave
>>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as
>>ylett -
>>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper
>>Chickahominy area
>>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost
>>records
>>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>>
>>Now, how 'bout a current event of true historic proportions. Did you know
>>that you will be able to observe an event this summer that no one living
>>has
>>ever observed; and no one living now will ever have an opportunity to
>>observe
>>again? Please see below.
>>
>>Joyce Browning
>>Fairfax County, Virginia
>>- - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>>
>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is
>>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest
>>approach
>>between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come
>>this
>>close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and
>>perturbs
>>its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this
>>close to
>>Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years
>>before
>>it happens again.
>>
>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
>>object in the
>>night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc
>>seconds wide At a modest 75-power magnification
>>
>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
>>easy
>>to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 p.m.
>>and
>>reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.
>>
>>By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at
>>nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's
>>pretty
>>convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded
>>history. So,
>>mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
>>progressively
>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>>
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 6/24/2005
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.1/28 - Release Date: 6/24/2005
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:51:42 -0400
>From: Eric Johnson <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>Alas, the Mars event referred to below is apparently an Internet hoax, or an
>outgrowth of an actual event from 2003 that took on a life of its own. I
>got excited at the notion, but then I wondered about the "Mars will look as
>large as the full moon to the naked eye" statement so I did some poking that
>unveiled these articles:
>
>http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-620211.html
>
>http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/columnists/bogert/articles/1631637.html
>
>Now back to your regularly-scheduled discussions of Virginia history. ;)
>
>All my best,
>
>--Eric
>
>Eric D. M. Johnson
>Proprietor
>The Village Factsmith Historical Research & Consulting
>http://www.factsmith.com/
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:53 AM
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>
>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>
>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is
>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest
>approach
>between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come
>this
>close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs
>its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close
>to
>Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before
>it happens again.
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:36:16 -0400
>From: Katharine Harbury <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>You may also want to check with the Library of Congress' Maps Division. =
>They have detailed maps of Virginia rivers, etc. dating to the mid-19th =
>century as part of some Naval-related (?) project concerning the depths =
>of the rivers, bays, etc. It was done in segments from northern =
>Virginia to Newport News or that general area. These maps are quite =
>detailed and might prove useful for you.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history =
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
>Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:54 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
><< Thank goodness there are others tired of this nonsense. Let's get =
>back to
>
>History. >>
>
>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once =
>deep enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this =
>river behave like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far =
>west as Aylett - about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of =
>the upper Chickahominy area certainly suggests that it was as navagable =
>as the Mattapony, but lost records in New Kent County may prevent our =
>knowledge of it.
>
>Now, how 'bout a current event of true historic proportions. Did you =
>know that you will be able to observe an event this summer that no one =
>living has ever observed; and no one living now will ever have an =
>opportunity to observe again? Please see below.
>
>Joyce Browning
>Fairfax County, Virginia
>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>
>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is =
>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest =
>approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars =
>may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on =
>Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars =
>has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be =
>as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.
>
>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest =
>object in the=20
>night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 =
>arc=20
>seconds wide At a modest 75-power magnification
>
>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be =
>easy to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 =
>p.m. and reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.
>
>By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at =
>nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's =
>pretty convenient to see something that no human being has seen in =
>recorded history. So, mark your calendar at the beginning of August to =
>see Mars grow progressively brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>=A0
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the =
>instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 09:45:20 -0400
>From: Lisa Francavilla <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Mars
>
>You and I were on the same wavelength, Eric...I also wondered about that
>assertion...that you'd have to look for it but that it'd be as large as
>the full moon? So I went to the trusty stardate.org website where there
>was not a thing mentioned about this event, and in about 2 seconds
>reached the same conclusion you did.
>
>Thanks for reminding us not to believe everything we read,
>Lisa at the PTJ:RS=20
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Johnson
>Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:52 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>Alas, the Mars event referred to below is apparently an Internet hoax,
>or an outgrowth of an actual event from 2003 that took on a life of its
>own. I got excited at the notion, but then I wondered about the "Mars
>will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye" statement so I did
>some poking that unveiled these articles:
>
>http://www.herald-sun.com/orange/10-620211.html
>
>http://www.dailybreeze.com/news/columnists/bogert/articles/1631637.html
>
>Now back to your regularly-scheduled discussions of Virginia history.
>;)
>
>All my best,
>
>--Eric
>
>Eric D. M. Johnson
>Proprietor
>The Village Factsmith Historical Research & Consulting
>http://www.factsmith.com/ [log in to unmask]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:53 AM
>Subject: Re: Site to Check Out Before You Publish
>
>
>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>
>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is
>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest
>approach between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars
>may come this close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on
>Mars and perturbs its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars
>has not come this close to Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be
>as long as 60,000 years before it happens again.
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
>instructions at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 17:10:58 GMT
>From: Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>I am interested in information on the Chickahominy, and its use in the Revolutionary War. My ancestors, served as Seamen during the Revolutionary War, patrolling the Rappahannock. One of the ships they were on, was docked at the Chickahominy. The Dragon sank in 1782, and is now at the bottom of the Chickahominy. I wonder if there are other ships resting there as well. I have not looked at a map, but there had to be a mouth large enough for the ship to go from the Rappahannock to the Chickahominy.
>
>Anita Wills
>
>
>
>
>-- [log in to unmask] wrote:
>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>
><< Thank goodness there are others tired of this nonsense. Let's get back to
>
>History. >>
>
>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once deep
>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river behave
>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as Aylett -
>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper Chickahominy area
>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost records
>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>
>Now, how 'bout a current event of true historic proportions. Did you know
>that you will be able to observe an event this summer that no one living has
>ever observed; and no one living now will ever have an opportunity to observe
>again? Please see below.
>
>Joyce Browning
>Fairfax County, Virginia
>- - - - - - - - - -
>
>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>
>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is
>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest approach
>between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come this
>close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and perturbs
>its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this close to
>Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years before
>it happens again.
>
>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest object in the
>night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc
>seconds wide At a modest 75-power magnification
>
>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be easy
>to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 p.m. and
>reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.
>
>By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at
>nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's pretty
>convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded history. So,
>mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow progressively
>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:30:32 -0400
>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>On Jun 29, 2005, at 1:10 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>
>
>
>>I am interested in information on the Chickahominy, and its use in the
>>Revolutionary War. My ancestors, served as Seamen during the
>>Revolutionary War, patrolling the Rappahannock. One of the ships they
>>were on, was docked at the Chickahominy. The Dragon sank in 1782, and
>>is now at the bottom of the Chickahominy. I wonder if there are other
>>ships resting there as well. I have not looked at a map, but there had
>>to be a mouth large enough for the ship to go from the Rappahannock to
>>the Chickahominy.
>>
>>Anita Wills
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Joyce Browning
>Fairfax County, Virginia wrote:
>
>
>>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once
>>deep
>>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river
>>behave
>>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as
>>Aylett -
>>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper
>>Chickahominy area
>>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost
>>records
>>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>>
>>
>
>The Chickahominy is a relatively large tributary of the James River.
>The Chickahominy Shipyard was 7 miles up and ocean-going ships were
>scuttled there during the Rev War, but I don't know if the Dragon was
>one of them. There was apparently another shipyard farther up. The head
>of navigation in the 18th century was about a mile downstream from
>Providence Forge. A canal was built in the middle 18th century up to
>the Forge to transport materials to and from the forge. Beyond that it
>was not navigable. The Chickahominy above PF is a drowned river valley.
>It has not been navigable for at least 3000 years as there are Archaic
>Indian sites on the banks on either side at Providence Forge and the
>depth is less than 3 feet for most of what's visible there.
>
>Having said that, there are interesting ditches near Mechanicsville
>that might relate to ad hoc navigation for small boats such as batteau
>or canoes, but certainly not for anything larger. Survey has not been
>done to see if it is possible to float the river from Mechanicsville to
>PF. One would need a winter helicopter ride to connect the pieces
>adequately.
>
>Lyle Browning
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 11:39:14 -0700
>From: Joe Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>Dear readers,
>
>This is the 3rd time I have published this inquiry
>over the last 6 months or so and no one has replied -
>not even someone from the Virginia State
>Archives/Library where these records are housed.
>
>Can/will anyone answer these question:
>
>There are large gaps in the Port Books that have been
>copied and placed on microfilm at the Archives as part
>of the Virginia Colonial Records Project.
>
>For instance, there are Port Book records for ca.
>1639/40/41 and then in the 1670s and 1690s.
>
>The FHC in Salt Lake City has an index of Port Books -
>the years and ports, not personal names - of English
>Port Books from well before 1600 until well after
>1700.
>
>QUESTION: What accounts for the gaps in the Port Book
>records that have been copied for the VCRP?
>
>(1) Are the records copied for the VCRP the only ones
>that have Virginia connections from 1600-1700?
>
>- or -
>
>(2) Do the Port Books - especially London - have the
>kind of gaps suggested by my experience above?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Joe Chandler Jr
>Alexandria
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:57:03 -0400
>From: Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>Right offhand (based on some familiarity with the VCRP over the years) I'd
>suggest:
>
>One - the VCRP surveyors did a pretty thorough job in the major English
>archives over the course of 50 years - I'm quite confident that they found
>what was there.
>
>Two - Notice the dates that are "missing" - they correspond with the
>English Civil Wars, Commonwealth, and Protectorate - and the resumption of
>record-keeping fits roughly with the Restoration of the Stuarts, passage
>of the Navigation Act that created, and the Anglo-Dutch Wars that excluded
>Holland from the tobacco trade - in short with creation of the
>18th-century British Atlantic empire and its administrative mechanisms...
>
>For that matter, the start date of 1639 corresponds with the first real
>round of administrative mechanisms for royal colonies linked to Sir
>Francis Wyatt...
>
>Jon Kukla
>
>
>
>
>>Dear readers,
>>
>>This is the 3rd time I have published this inquiry over the last 6
>>
>>
>months or so and no one has replied - not even someone from the
>Virginia State
>
>
>>Archives/Library where these records are housed.
>>
>>Can/will anyone answer these question:
>>
>>There are large gaps in the Port Books that have been copied and placed
>>
>>
>on microfilm at the Archives as part of the Virginia Colonial Records
>Project.
>
>
>>For instance, there are Port Book records for ca. 1639/40/41 and then in
>>
>>
>the 1670s and 1690s.
>
>
>>The FHC in Salt Lake City has an index of Port Books -
>>the years and ports, not personal names - of English
>>Port Books from well before 1600 until well after
>>1700.
>>
>>QUESTION: What accounts for the gaps in the Port Book
>>records that have been copied for the VCRP?
>>
>>(1) Are the records copied for the VCRP the only ones
>>that have Virginia connections from 1600-1700?
>>
>>- or -
>>
>>(2) Do the Port Books - especially London - have the
>>kind of gaps suggested by my experience above?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>Alexandria
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>1250 Red Hill Road
>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>www.redhill.org
>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:10:49 -0700
>From: Joe Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>Thanks very much John for your prompt reply. I am
>going to London soon and will report if I find
>anything "new."
>
>I have found some items in records such as the
>published excerpts of papers of Queen Elizabeth, James
>I and others that have Virginia connections apparently
>not realized by the VCRP researchers.
>
>On the other hand, two depositions - indexed in the
>VCRP but not copied and microfilmed - made in London
>in January 1624/5 by Reverend William Mease (first
>minister at St. John's, Hampton) and his then wife
>Margry (indexed as "Mace") give significant details
>about themselves and several events in Virginia not
>published anywhere else. Included are the facts that
>Mease moved from Hampton to Henricus Citie, where he
>was a/the minister at the time of the March 22, 1621/2
>native uprising and that Margry was one of the
>"maidens for Virginia" (surname unknown because she
>came aboard one of the first two such ships, for which
>records have not survived).
>
>Hopefully, more such gems may yet be found.
>
>Mease is the "traditional" ancestor of the quite large
>MAYS/MAYES family founded by William Maies (Reverend
>Mease did have such a son) in Southside Charles County
>(now Prince George County) ca. 1640-1650. Whether this
>is acurate may or may not ever be learned.
>
>Interested persons may wish to respond directly to me
>and/or to read my article about Reverend Mease in the
>August/September 2001 issue of "Tidewater Virginia
>Families."
>
>Joe Chandler Jr
>[log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>--- Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Right offhand (based on some familiarity with the
>>VCRP over the years) I'd
>>suggest:
>>
>>One - the VCRP surveyors did a pretty thorough job
>>in the major English
>>archives over the course of 50 years - I'm quite
>>confident that they found
>>what was there.
>>
>>Two - Notice the dates that are "missing" - they
>>correspond with the
>>English Civil Wars, Commonwealth, and Protectorate -
>>and the resumption of
>>record-keeping fits roughly with the Restoration of
>>the Stuarts, passage
>>of the Navigation Act that created, and the
>>Anglo-Dutch Wars that excluded
>>Holland from the tobacco trade - in short with
>>creation of the
>>18th-century British Atlantic empire and its
>>administrative mechanisms...
>>
>>For that matter, the start date of 1639 corresponds
>>with the first real
>>round of administrative mechanisms for royal
>>colonies linked to Sir
>>Francis Wyatt...
>>
>>Jon Kukla
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Dear readers,
>>>
>>>This is the 3rd time I have published this inquiry
>>>
>>>
>>over the last 6
>>months or so and no one has replied - not even
>>someone from the
>>Virginia State
>>
>>
>>>Archives/Library where these records are housed.
>>>
>>>Can/will anyone answer these question:
>>>
>>>There are large gaps in the Port Books that have
>>>
>>>
>>been copied and placed
>>on microfilm at the Archives as part of the Virginia
>>Colonial Records
>>Project.
>>
>>
>>>For instance, there are Port Book records for ca.
>>>
>>>
>>1639/40/41 and then in
>>the 1670s and 1690s.
>>
>>
>>>The FHC in Salt Lake City has an index of Port
>>>
>>>
>>Books -
>>
>>
>>>the years and ports, not personal names - of
>>>
>>>
>>English
>>
>>
>>>Port Books from well before 1600 until well after
>>>1700.
>>>
>>>QUESTION: What accounts for the gaps in the Port
>>>
>>>
>>Book
>>
>>
>>>records that have been copied for the VCRP?
>>>
>>>(1) Are the records copied for the VCRP the only
>>>
>>>
>>ones
>>
>>
>>>that have Virginia connections from 1600-1700?
>>>
>>>- or -
>>>
>>>(2) Do the Port Books - especially London - have
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>kind of gaps suggested by my experience above?
>>>
>>>Thanks!
>>>
>>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>>Alexandria
>>>
>>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe,
>>>
>>>
>>please see the instructions
>>
>>
>>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>>1250 Red Hill Road
>>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>>www.redhill.org
>>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please
>>see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:25:46 -0400
>From: "Peter V. Bergstrom" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>I would add to Jon's excellent chronology the note that many of the
>commercial records -- the port books, the naval lists (another form of
>customs document) and the reports of the English customs service -- were
>stored in the London Custom House before the establishment of the Public
>Record Office about 1860. Unfortunately, the Plantation Wing of the London
>Custom's House was gutted by fire in 1814 with the result that many colonial
>and not a small number of English port records were destroyed. What
>remained spent a number of years in confused piles where they had been
>dumped as they were rescued from the fire. Even today the results of those
>confused piles can still be seen in the haphazard arrangement of the
>Virginia Naval Lists (CO5/1441-1450).
>
>Although I have found a few fugitive naval lists scattered in collections at
>the Massachusetts Historical Society, the Huntingdon Library, and even at
>VSL, I have never seen any port books relating to the colonial period other
>than those listed in the VCRP.
>
>One last point -- before the establishment of the PRO most English "public
>records" were actually considered to be part of the private papers of the
>individual office holders and may never have come into the public domain in
>the first place.
>
>Peter V. Bergstrom, PhD
>PC Services Consultant & Web Designer
>and Independent Historian
>336-286-8654
>[log in to unmask]
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jon Kukla
>Sent: 29 June 2005 2:57 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>
>Right offhand (based on some familiarity with the VCRP over the years) I'd
>suggest:
>
>One - the VCRP surveyors did a pretty thorough job in the major English
>archives over the course of 50 years - I'm quite confident that they found
>what was there.
>
>Two - Notice the dates that are "missing" - they correspond with the
>English Civil Wars, Commonwealth, and Protectorate - and the resumption of
>record-keeping fits roughly with the Restoration of the Stuarts, passage
>of the Navigation Act that created, and the Anglo-Dutch Wars that excluded
>Holland from the tobacco trade - in short with creation of the
>18th-century British Atlantic empire and its administrative mechanisms...
>
>For that matter, the start date of 1639 corresponds with the first real
>round of administrative mechanisms for royal colonies linked to Sir
>Francis Wyatt...
>
>Jon Kukla
>
>
>
>
>>Dear readers,
>>
>>This is the 3rd time I have published this inquiry over the last 6
>>
>>
>months or so and no one has replied - not even someone from the
>Virginia State
>
>
>>Archives/Library where these records are housed.
>>
>>Can/will anyone answer these question:
>>
>>There are large gaps in the Port Books that have been copied and placed
>>
>>
>on microfilm at the Archives as part of the Virginia Colonial Records
>Project.
>
>
>>For instance, there are Port Book records for ca. 1639/40/41 and then in
>>
>>
>the 1670s and 1690s.
>
>
>>The FHC in Salt Lake City has an index of Port Books -
>>the years and ports, not personal names - of English
>>Port Books from well before 1600 until well after
>>1700.
>>
>>QUESTION: What accounts for the gaps in the Port Book
>>records that have been copied for the VCRP?
>>
>>(1) Are the records copied for the VCRP the only ones
>>that have Virginia connections from 1600-1700?
>>
>>- or -
>>
>>(2) Do the Port Books - especially London - have the
>>kind of gaps suggested by my experience above?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>Alexandria
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>1250 Red Hill Road
>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>www.redhill.org
>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:37:32 -0400
>From: Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>There are some peculiarities about the research strategy that the VCRP
>agents used - and I comment on them in the introduction to Kneebone &
>Kukla et al eds Guide to the VCRP Microfilm.
> ONE critically important fact that researchers using the Survey Reports
>need to remember is that the first essential purpose of the Survey
>Report was to order microfilm. The Survey Reports were NOT intended as
>"abstracts" of the material. SO, any collection was almost exclusively
>about Virginia, the agents in late 50s and throughout the 60s really had
>no reason to go into much detail in the Survey Report about that
>collection : If a bound volume was ALL about Virginia, one could simply
>describe that volume and say film it.
>Conversely if there were a handful of identifiable Virginia-related items
>among a large mass of other stuff, then those items got a more detailed
>description ... so they could be microfilmed.
>The irony, of course, is that the specific detail of the Survey Reports as
>microfilm orders can be inversely related to the amount of
>Virginia-related material in the archive AND on the film.
> The real lesson for scholarship is to use the Survey Reports and index
>and any other guides to manuscript collections and archives as tools to
>get you to the microfilm -- which is where the real riches are!
>
>Your comments about the Mease/MAYS/MAYES/Maies entries demonstrates a
>SECOND reality - familiar to all experienced archival researchers and no
>less true about the VCRP survey reports, indexes, and microfilm :
>Subject headings always more problematic than name entries : if you know
>the names of people involved in your subject, you have a greater chance of
>finding information about that subject than with keywords and subjects.
>
>In short, without for a moment under-valuing the VCRP film and its related
>guides and finding aids, you have a good chance of coming across bits of
>new and useful information. A few years ago, for example, I was working
>with the catalogue of the State Historical Society of Wisconsin looking
>for stuff about the Louisiana Purchase - there wasn't anything new to
>found via subject entries - but when I ran through my list of players I
>ended up with some wonderful documents that were very pertinent...... And
>again the real lesson for scholarship is to use finding aids as tools to
>get you to the manuscripts, books, or microfilm where the real riches are.
>
>
>Jon Kukla
>
>
>
>>Thanks very much John for your prompt reply. I am
>>going to London soon and will report if I find
>>anything "new."
>>
>>I have found some items in records such as the
>>published excerpts of papers of Queen Elizabeth, James
>>I and others that have Virginia connections apparently
>>not realized by the VCRP researchers.
>>
>>On the other hand, two depositions - indexed in the
>>VCRP but not copied and microfilmed - made in London
>>in January 1624/5 by Reverend William Mease (first
>>minister at St. John's, Hampton) and his then wife
>>Margry (indexed as "Mace") give significant details
>>about themselves and several events in Virginia not
>>published anywhere else. Included are the facts that
>>Mease moved from Hampton to Henricus Citie, where he
>>was a/the minister at the time of the March 22, 1621/2
>>native uprising and that Margry was one of the
>>"maidens for Virginia" (surname unknown because she
>>came aboard one of the first two such ships, for which
>>records have not survived).
>>
>>Hopefully, more such gems may yet be found.
>>
>>Mease is the "traditional" ancestor of the quite large
>>MAYS/MAYES family founded by William Maies (Reverend
>>Mease did have such a son) in Southside Charles County
>>(now Prince George County) ca. 1640-1650. Whether this
>>is acurate may or may not ever be learned.
>>
>>Interested persons may wish to respond directly to me
>>and/or to read my article about Reverend Mease in the
>>August/September 2001 issue of "Tidewater Virginia
>>Families."
>>
>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Right offhand (based on some familiarity with the
>>>VCRP over the years) I'd
>>>suggest:
>>>
>>>One - the VCRP surveyors did a pretty thorough job
>>>in the major English
>>>archives over the course of 50 years - I'm quite
>>>confident that they found
>>>what was there.
>>>
>>>Two - Notice the dates that are "missing" - they
>>>correspond with the
>>>English Civil Wars, Commonwealth, and Protectorate -
>>>and the resumption of
>>>record-keeping fits roughly with the Restoration of
>>>the Stuarts, passage
>>>of the Navigation Act that created, and the
>>>Anglo-Dutch Wars that excluded
>>>Holland from the tobacco trade - in short with
>>>creation of the
>>>18th-century British Atlantic empire and its
>>>administrative mechanisms...
>>>
>>>For that matter, the start date of 1639 corresponds
>>>with the first real
>>>round of administrative mechanisms for royal
>>>colonies linked to Sir
>>>Francis Wyatt...
>>>
>>>Jon Kukla
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dear readers,
>>>>
>>>>This is the 3rd time I have published this inquiry
>>>>
>>>>
>>>over the last 6
>>>months or so and no one has replied - not even
>>>someone from the
>>>Virginia State
>>>
>>>
>>>>Archives/Library where these records are housed.
>>>>
>>>>Can/will anyone answer these question:
>>>>
>>>>There are large gaps in the Port Books that have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>been copied and placed
>>>on microfilm at the Archives as part of the Virginia
>>>Colonial Records
>>>Project.
>>>
>>>
>>>>For instance, there are Port Book records for ca.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>1639/40/41 and then in
>>>the 1670s and 1690s.
>>>
>>>
>>>>The FHC in Salt Lake City has an index of Port
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Books -
>>>
>>>
>>>>the years and ports, not personal names - of
>>>>
>>>>
>>>English
>>>
>>>
>>>>Port Books from well before 1600 until well after
>>>>1700.
>>>>
>>>>QUESTION: What accounts for the gaps in the Port
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Book
>>>
>>>
>>>>records that have been copied for the VCRP?
>>>>
>>>>(1) Are the records copied for the VCRP the only
>>>>
>>>>
>>>ones
>>>
>>>
>>>>that have Virginia connections from 1600-1700?
>>>>
>>>>- or -
>>>>
>>>>(2) Do the Port Books - especially London - have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>
>>>>kind of gaps suggested by my experience above?
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!
>>>>
>>>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>>>Alexandria
>>>>
>>>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>please see the instructions
>>>
>>>
>>>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>>>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>>>1250 Red Hill Road
>>>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>>>www.redhill.org
>>>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>>>
>>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please
>>>see the instructions
>>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>1250 Red Hill Road
>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>www.redhill.org
>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>
>Fax 434-376-2647
>
>- M. Lynn Davis, Office Manager
>- Karen Gorham-Smith, Associate Curator
>- Edith Poindexter, Curator
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 21:18:07 GMT
>From: Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>As I mentioned previously, I am not familiar with the area, especially the Chickahominy. The information about where the Dragon sank came from Colonial Records, and from Historians. I believe the Mariners Museum has that information as well. My ancestor mentioned in his records that the Dragon Ship docked at the Chickahominy. That is where he and his brother mustered out as Seamen. Later, I was informed that the Dragon Ship sank while docked at the Chickahominy. I would like to find out which statement is true. Could it be that parts of the Chickahominy were renamed? Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.
>
>Anita
>
>
>-- "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>On Jun 29, 2005, at 1:10 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>
>
>
>>I am interested in information on the Chickahominy, and its use in the
>>Revolutionary War. My ancestors, served as Seamen during the
>>Revolutionary War, patrolling the Rappahannock. One of the ships they
>>were on, was docked at the Chickahominy. The Dragon sank in 1782, and
>>is now at the bottom of the Chickahominy. I wonder if there are other
>>ships resting there as well. I have not looked at a map, but there had
>>to be a mouth large enough for the ship to go from the Rappahannock to
>>the Chickahominy.
>>
>>Anita Wills
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Joyce Browning
>Fairfax County, Virginia wrote:
>
>
>>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once
>>deep
>>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river
>>behave
>>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as
>>Aylett -
>>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper
>>Chickahominy area
>>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost
>>records
>>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>>
>>
>
>The Chickahominy is a relatively large tributary of the James River.
>The Chickahominy Shipyard was 7 miles up and ocean-going ships were
>scuttled there during the Rev War, but I don't know if the Dragon was
>one of them. There was apparently another shipyard farther up. The head
>of navigation in the 18th century was about a mile downstream from
>Providence Forge. A canal was built in the middle 18th century up to
>the Forge to transport materials to and from the forge. Beyond that it
>was not navigable. The Chickahominy above PF is a drowned river valley.
>It has not been navigable for at least 3000 years as there are Archaic
>Indian sites on the banks on either side at Providence Forge and the
>depth is less than 3 feet for most of what's visible there.
>
>Having said that, there are interesting ditches near Mechanicsville
>that might relate to ad hoc navigation for small boats such as batteau
>or canoes, but certainly not for anything larger. Survey has not been
>done to see if it is possible to float the river from Mechanicsville to
>PF. One would need a winter helicopter ride to connect the pieces
>adequately.
>
>Lyle Browning
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:26:00 -0700
>From: Joe Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: London Port Books - Colonial Records Project
>
>Thanks again Jon.
>
>Your insights and encouragement are very helpful. VCRP
>is a wonderful research; it is where I got the "Mace"
>reference. I do research as both historian (college
>major, lifetime hobby) and as a genealogist, with
>years of law practice as a further asset, so I have
>learned the value of searching both the larger history
>and the personal history.
>
>Within the last few weeks I found some information
>about the origins of some early Virginia and NC
>Quakers in London.
>
>jc
>
>
>
>
>--- Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>There are some peculiarities about the research
>>strategy that the VCRP
>>agents used - and I comment on them in the
>>introduction to Kneebone &
>>Kukla et al eds Guide to the VCRP Microfilm.
>> ONE critically important fact that researchers
>>using the Survey Reports
>>need to remember is that the first essential purpose
>>of the Survey
>>Report was to order microfilm. The Survey Reports
>>were NOT intended as
>>"abstracts" of the material. SO, any collection was
>>almost exclusively
>>about Virginia, the agents in late 50s and
>>throughout the 60s really had
>>no reason to go into much detail in the Survey
>>Report about that
>>collection : If a bound volume was ALL about
>>Virginia, one could simply
>>describe that volume and say film it.
>>Conversely if there were a handful of identifiable
>>Virginia-related items
>>among a large mass of other stuff, then those items
>>got a more detailed
>>description ... so they could be microfilmed.
>>The irony, of course, is that the specific detail of
>>the Survey Reports as
>>microfilm orders can be inversely related to the
>>amount of
>>Virginia-related material in the archive AND on the
>>film.
>> The real lesson for scholarship is to use the
>>Survey Reports and index
>>and any other guides to manuscript collections and
>>archives as tools to
>>get you to the microfilm -- which is where the real
>>riches are!
>>
>>Your comments about the Mease/MAYS/MAYES/Maies
>>entries demonstrates a
>>SECOND reality - familiar to all experienced
>>archival researchers and no
>>less true about the VCRP survey reports, indexes,
>>and microfilm :
>>Subject headings always more problematic than name
>>entries : if you know
>>the names of people involved in your subject, you
>>have a greater chance of
>>finding information about that subject than with
>>keywords and subjects.
>>
>>In short, without for a moment under-valuing the
>>VCRP film and its related
>>guides and finding aids, you have a good chance of
>>coming across bits of
>>new and useful information. A few years ago, for
>>example, I was working
>>with the catalogue of the State Historical Society
>>of Wisconsin looking
>>for stuff about the Louisiana Purchase - there
>>wasn't anything new to
>>found via subject entries - but when I ran through
>>my list of players I
>>ended up with some wonderful documents that were
>>very pertinent...... And
>>again the real lesson for scholarship is to use
>>finding aids as tools to
>>get you to the manuscripts, books, or microfilm
>>where the real riches are.
>>
>>
>>Jon Kukla
>>
>>
>>
>>>Thanks very much John for your prompt reply. I am
>>>going to London soon and will report if I find
>>>anything "new."
>>>
>>>I have found some items in records such as the
>>>published excerpts of papers of Queen Elizabeth,
>>>
>>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>>I and others that have Virginia connections
>>>
>>>
>>apparently
>>
>>
>>>not realized by the VCRP researchers.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, two depositions - indexed in
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>VCRP but not copied and microfilmed - made in
>>>
>>>
>>London
>>
>>
>>>in January 1624/5 by Reverend William Mease (first
>>>minister at St. John's, Hampton) and his then wife
>>>Margry (indexed as "Mace") give significant
>>>
>>>
>>details
>>
>>
>>>about themselves and several events in Virginia
>>>
>>>
>>not
>>
>>
>>>published anywhere else. Included are the facts
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>Mease moved from Hampton to Henricus Citie, where
>>>
>>>
>>he
>>
>>
>>>was a/the minister at the time of the March 22,
>>>
>>>
>>1621/2
>>
>>
>>>native uprising and that Margry was one of the
>>>"maidens for Virginia" (surname unknown because
>>>
>>>
>>she
>>
>>
>>>came aboard one of the first two such ships, for
>>>
>>>
>>which
>>
>>
>>>records have not survived).
>>>
>>>Hopefully, more such gems may yet be found.
>>>
>>>Mease is the "traditional" ancestor of the quite
>>>
>>>
>>large
>>
>>
>>>MAYS/MAYES family founded by William Maies
>>>
>>>
>>(Reverend
>>
>>
>>>Mease did have such a son) in Southside Charles
>>>
>>>
>>County
>>
>>
>>>(now Prince George County) ca. 1640-1650. Whether
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>is acurate may or may not ever be learned.
>>>
>>>Interested persons may wish to respond directly to
>>>
>>>
>>me
>>
>>
>>>and/or to read my article about Reverend Mease in
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>August/September 2001 issue of "Tidewater Virginia
>>>Families."
>>>
>>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>>[log in to unmask]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Right offhand (based on some familiarity with the
>>>>VCRP over the years) I'd
>>>>suggest:
>>>>
>>>>One - the VCRP surveyors did a pretty thorough
>>>>
>>>>
>>job
>>
>>
>>>>in the major English
>>>>archives over the course of 50 years - I'm quite
>>>>confident that they found
>>>>what was there.
>>>>
>>>>Two - Notice the dates that are "missing" - they
>>>>correspond with the
>>>>English Civil Wars, Commonwealth, and
>>>>
>>>>
>>Protectorate -
>>
>>
>>>>and the resumption of
>>>>record-keeping fits roughly with the Restoration
>>>>
>>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>>the Stuarts, passage
>>>>of the Navigation Act that created, and the
>>>>Anglo-Dutch Wars that excluded
>>>>Holland from the tobacco trade - in short with
>>>>creation of the
>>>>18th-century British Atlantic empire and its
>>>>administrative mechanisms...
>>>>
>>>>For that matter, the start date of 1639
>>>>
>>>>
>>corresponds
>>
>>
>>>>with the first real
>>>>round of administrative mechanisms for royal
>>>>colonies linked to Sir
>>>>Francis Wyatt...
>>>>
>>>>Jon Kukla
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Dear readers,
>>>>>
>>>>>This is the 3rd time I have published this
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>inquiry
>>
>>
>>>>over the last 6
>>>>months or so and no one has replied - not even
>>>>someone from the
>>>>Virginia State
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Archives/Library where these records are
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>housed.
>>
>>
>>>>>Can/will anyone answer these question:
>>>>>
>>>>>There are large gaps in the Port Books that
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>have
>>
>>
>>>>been copied and placed
>>>>on microfilm at the Archives as part of the
>>>>
>>>>
>>Virginia
>>
>>
>>>>Colonial Records
>>>>Project.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>For instance, there are Port Book records for
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>ca.
>>
>>
>>>>1639/40/41 and then in
>>>>the 1670s and 1690s.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>The FHC in Salt Lake City has an index of Port
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Books -
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>the years and ports, not personal names - of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>English
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Port Books from well before 1600 until well
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>after
>>
>>
>>>>>1700.
>>>>>
>>>>>QUESTION: What accounts for the gaps in the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>Port
>>
>>
>>>>Book
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>records that have been copied for the VCRP?
>>>>>
>>>>>(1) Are the records copied for the VCRP the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>only
>>
>>
>>>>ones
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>that have Virginia connections from 1600-1700?
>>>>>
>>>>>- or -
>>>>>
>>>>>(2) Do the Port Books - especially London -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>have
>>
>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>kind of gaps suggested by my experience above?
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>>Joe Chandler Jr
>>>>>Alexandria
>>>>>
>>>>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>please see the instructions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>>>>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>>>>1250 Red Hill Road
>>>>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>>>>www.redhill.org
>>>>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>>>>
>>>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe,
>>>>
>>>>
>>please
>>
>>
>>>>see the instructions
>>>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe,
>>>
>>>
>>please see the instructions
>>
>>
>>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Dr. Jon Kukla, Executive Vice-President
>>Red Hill - The Patrick Henry National Memorial
>>1250 Red Hill Road
>>Brookneal, Virginia 24528
>>www.redhill.org
>>Phone 434-376-2044 or 800-514-7463
>>
>>Fax 434-376-2647
>>
>>- M. Lynn Davis, Office Manager
>>- Karen Gorham-Smith, Associate Curator
>>- Edith Poindexter, Curator
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please
>>see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 18:03:14 -0400
>From: "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>On Jun 29, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>
>
>
>>As I mentioned previously, I am not familiar with the area, especially
>>the Chickahominy. The information about where the Dragon sank came
>>from Colonial Records, and from Historians. I believe the Mariners
>>Museum has that information as well. My ancestor mentioned in his
>>records that the Dragon Ship docked at the Chickahominy. That is where
>>he and his brother mustered out as Seamen. Later, I was informed that
>>the Dragon Ship sank while docked at the Chickahominy. I would like to
>>find out which statement is true. Could it be that parts of the
>>Chickahominy were renamed? Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.
>>
>>
>
>The Chickahominy has never been renamed as far as I know. It's probably
>the Chickahominy shipyard. ECU did an excavation there a few years ago
>with the relevant report on file at the VA Dept. of Historic Resources.
>It might have the ship names. I believe there were 3 that were scuttled
>to avoid them falling into British hands. Simcoe burned the Thetis
>there when he arrived.
>
>Lyle Browning
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 19:21:27 -0400
>From: Jean Duke <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>This may sound like a minor item, but it's important when dealing with
>maritime matters: Be aware that "maps" tell the user what the land mass was
>like, while "charts" deal only with the maritime environment--water depth,
>navigable channels, ways to approach from the sea, and the like.
>
>Maurice Duke
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Anita Wills" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:10 PM
>Subject: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>
>
>
>>I am interested in information on the Chickahominy, and its use in the
>>Revolutionary War. My ancestors, served as Seamen during the Revolutionary
>>War, patrolling the Rappahannock. One of the ships they were on, was docked
>>at the Chickahominy. The Dragon sank in 1782, and is now at the bottom of
>>the Chickahominy. I wonder if there are other ships resting there as well.
>>I have not looked at a map, but there had to be a mouth large enough for
>>the ship to go from the Rappahannock to the Chickahominy.
>>
>>Anita Wills
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-- [log in to unmask] wrote:
>>In a message dated 6/29/05 9:08:29 AM, [log in to unmask] writes:
>>
>><< Thank goodness there are others tired of this nonsense. Let's get back
>>to
>>
>>History. >>
>>
>>I'm very interested in discovering if the upper Chickahominy was once deep
>>enough for the 9- or 12-foot draft of colonial ships. Did this river
>>behave
>>like the Mattapony where a merchant ship could sail as far west as
>>ylett -
>>about 50 miles west of the Bay? Early development of the upper
>>Chickahominy area
>>certainly suggests that it was as navagable as the Mattapony, but lost
>>records
>>in New Kent County may prevent our knowledge of it.
>>
>>Now, how 'bout a current event of true historic proportions. Did you know
>>that you will be able to observe an event this summer that no one living
>>has
>>ever observed; and no one living now will ever have an opportunity to
>>observe
>>again? Please see below.
>>
>>Joyce Browning
>>Fairfax County, Virginia
>>- - - - - - - - - -
>>
>>[Sorry, I can't source this article. A friend sent it to me.]
>>
>>The Red Planet is about to be spectacular! This month and next, Earth is
>>catching up with Mars in an encounter that will culminate in the closest
>>approach
>>between the two planets in recorded history. The next time Mars may come
>>this
>>close is in 2287. Due to the way Jupiter's gravity tugs on Mars and
>>perturbs
>>its orbit, astronomers can only be certain that Mars has not come this
>>close to
>>Earth in the Last 5,000 years, but it may be as long as 60,000 years
>>before
>>it happens again.
>>
>>The encounter will culminate on August 27th when Mars comes to within
>>34,649,589 miles of Earth and will be (next to the moon) the brightest
>>object in the
>>night sky. It will attain a magnitude of -2.9 and will appear 25.11 arc
>>seconds wide At a modest 75-power magnification
>>
>>Mars will look as large as the full moon to the naked eye. Mars will be
>>easy
>>to spot. At the beginning of August it will rise in the east at 10 p.m.
>>and
>>reach its azimuth at about 3 a.m.
>>
>>By the end of August when the two planets are closest, Mars will rise at
>>nightfall and reach its highest point in the sky at 12:30a.m. That's
>>pretty
>>convenient to see something that no human being has seen in recorded
>>history. So,
>>mark your calendar at the beginning of August to see Mars grow
>>progressively
>>brighter and brighter throughout the month.
>>
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>>
>>
>>--
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.6/33 - Release Date: 6/28/2005
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this outgoing message.
>Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.6/33 - Release Date: 6/28/2005
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 23:40:21 GMT
>From: Anita Wills <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: Information on the Chickahominy
>
>Lyle,
>Thanks. I will check with VHR and see if the report is available for viewing.
>Anita
>
>
>-- "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>On Jun 29, 2005, at 5:18 PM, Anita Wills wrote:
>
>
>
>>As I mentioned previously, I am not familiar with the area, especially
>>the Chickahominy. The information about where the Dragon sank came
>>from Colonial Records, and from Historians. I believe the Mariners
>>Museum has that information as well. My ancestor mentioned in his
>>records that the Dragon Ship docked at the Chickahominy. That is where
>>he and his brother mustered out as Seamen. Later, I was informed that
>>the Dragon Ship sank while docked at the Chickahominy. I would like to
>>find out which statement is true. Could it be that parts of the
>>Chickahominy were renamed? Maybe that is where the confusion comes in.
>>
>>
>
>The Chickahominy has never been renamed as far as I know. It's probably
>the Chickahominy shipyard. ECU did an excavation there a few years ago
>with the relevant report on file at the VA Dept. of Historic Resources.
>It might have the ship names. I believe there were 3 that were scuttled
>to avoid them falling into British hands. Simcoe burned the Thetis
>there when he arrived.
>
>Lyle Browning
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>------------------------------
>
>End of VA-HIST Digest - 28 Jun 2005 to 29 Jun 2005 (#2005-105)
>**************************************************************
>
>
>
To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
|
