Anne,
Glad to see you acknowledging that DNA did confirm the Eston Hemings
oral family history. It was planned that way (you know that Dr Foster
and I worked on this), HOWEVER he did not inform Nature, Monticello or
the media of this. YES, there would be a match because Eston's
acknowledged ancestor was "a Jefferson uncle" meaning Randolph
Jefferson. Thus Randolph's DNA (John Weeks Jefferson blood) would match
that of the five Field Jefferson donors. No surprise here just denial of
history by Dr Foster. Foster sat on the details for several months (June
13-Oct 31, 1998) before the Nature article was published and Prof.
Joseph Ellis and USNWR coordinated on it..........yes, the same
professor giving praise for AGR's book on the dust cover. Ellis heaps
praise in his book, Founding Brothers upon Stephan Smith then Editor of
USNWR as "the sharpest pencil around the Washington beltway." It also
may be enlightening to hear that Prof. Joseph Ellis is also the person
found to be a liar by the Boston Globe and I might add that he fits that
category for his co-authorship of a lying Nature Journal article with
Eric Landers of M.I.T. Yes, it sure is a vast agenda against Mr.
Jefferson Mr & Mrs America.
Herb Barger
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anne Pemberton
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
Adrian,
You can believe whatever you please, but please stop with the insults on
my
conclusion that vary from yours. I don't think that Thomas Jefferson is
made
to appear more honorable by stacking up all the males he may have
offered
his slave to - that would make him a pimp!
I am, perhaps, more swayed by the stories within the Hemings' families
than
you are. I do not discount them as easily as you do. The fact that the
story
in the Eston Hemings family was confirmed by DNA suggests that the
remaining
families are more likely to be based on truth rather than fiction. There
are
other evidentiary sources that you presume to ignore, including entried
in
diaries, the length and ardour of TJ's pursuit of Mrs. Walker, his
foolish
behavior with Mrs. Cosway in Paris, and the remarks of others who live
at
Monticello and told of the general knowledge among the staff of the
relationship.
You can believe what ever you please, but I think the circumstancial
evidence is overwhelming. I only ask that your respect my conclusions,
and
those of many other historians who extensively research the available
sources, and not draw unfounded conclusions about those who draw such
different conclusions.
Anne
Anne Pemberton
[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/apembert
http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Zolkover" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:04 AM
Subject: Re: Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
> Anne, re-screw your head on. Annette Gordon-Reed should be a fairy
tale
> writer or one who specializes in white lies, or worse, deliberate lies
> about the person in his time that did more to end slavery and
establish
> democracy in the United States than any one else. Stop ignoring
verified
> historical documents published by experts in genealogy and history.
Stop
> ignoring his brother Randolph who even TJ said was at times not
> incompetent to handle his own affairs, who lived 20 miles away, who
> socialized with Thomas Jefferson's slaves, and who was widowed about
the
> time Sally began having babies, and remarried around the time Sally
> stopped having babies; and Randolph's 4 sons who also visited and
lived at
> Monticello and were of child bearing age when Sally had her babies.
TJ's
> brilliance, accomplishments and principles, and attractiveness don't
seem
> to impress upon you that it just might be likely if he wanted a lady's
> company he would not chose Sally; and that he could have his pick of
many
> other attractive and accomplished ladies and women. The way he lived
his
> life at home, when he was at Monticello, with his daughter, her
husband
> who managed Monticello, whose rooms were within seeing and hearing
> distance of TJ's; and their 12 children; and rules that slaves were
not to
> be in his quarters when he was present indicates his tastes and rules
of
> behavior did not lend to your or Annette's made up tales. Does the
fact
> that Sally didn't have her first baby for 13 years after TJ's wife
died
> mean anything to you? Probably not, because you believe in one fairy
tale
> imaginary non existent baby, or one whose father was not TJ, born in
> France. Let's make up things about you Anne and publish them. I don't
know
> who you are but I think even you possibly would not like that. I think
> Thomas Jefferson's flaws in character are principally your made up
flaws.
> No thanks Anne. Pardon me if I wish you would keep those to yourself.
>
> Miss Adrian Zolkover
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anne Pemberton" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>
>
>> Herbert,
>>
>> I am quite accustomed to your nasty replies anytime anyone praises
those
>> who disagree with you. Why you cannot just agree to disagree is
beyond
>> me.
>>
>> The fact that you can find NO proof that TJ fathered the children in
>> question does not establish for a fact that he did not. It just means
it
>> has not been proven to your satisfaction. And, I feel quite certain
that
>> if you were faced with DNA evidence that Madison Hemings was fathered
by
>> a Jefferson male, you would go out of your way to argue it wasn't
Tom.
>>
>> The fact that TJ is a Founding Father does NOT establish his
sainthood.
>> All of the Founding Fathers had flaws in character. Ben Franklin is
>> probably my personal favorite Founding Father, and yet he publically
>> admitted he father a child - a son that he raised to commit the same
faux
>> paus as his father, so that in his old age, Ben was raising that same
>> grandson born out of wedlock. Ben was willing to admit his "mistakes"
and
>> did his best to make them right. TJ seemed, too often, to hide his
>> mistakes from public scrutiny. What "honorable man" uses a writer to
>> slander a friend, and then cries wolf when the same writer peeks into
his
>> own affairs?
>>
>> Anne
>>
>> Anne Pemberton
>> [log in to unmask]
>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Herbert Barger" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>>
>>
>>> Yes, and it is in many publications but this doesn't change the fact
>>> that it is NOT true, but much of the media is involved in this
agenda. I
>>> tell the readers that this book and other similar recent books is
part
>>> of an agenda and there is NO proof that TJ fathered any slave child.
>>> Please consult: www.tjheritage.org for a full Scholars Commission
Report
>>> (13 top scholars), who found NO proof of this liaison, SO may we not
ask
>>> the author........what is your agenda and who is behind it.......not
>>> that I don't know the answer and have for several years. That is why
I
>>> founded the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society.....to counter the
biased
>>> research performed at Monticello and provide truthful and accurate
>>> research to the public. We can use financial support at the above
web
>>> page address to continue our research.
>>>
>>> Herbert Barger
>>> Jefferson Family Historian
>>> Asst. to Dr Foster on the DNA Study
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Melinda Skinner
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:56 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>>>
>>> There's also an interesting article on the book in the New Yorker:
>>> http://www.newyorker.com/search/query?keyword=8220 The Hemingses of
>>> Monticello: An American Family 8221 (Norton 36 35)
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Melinda C. P. Skinner
>>> Richmond, VA
>>>
>>>
>>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>> From: Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Posted at History News Network, Monday, September 22, 2008 Annette
>>>> Gordon-Reed : Edmund Morgan calls her one of the best historians of
>>> her
>>>> generation <http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/54782.html>
>>>>
>>>> Source: *Marie Morgan and Edmund S. Morgan in the New York Review
of
>>> Books
>>>> in the course of a review of Annette Gordon-Reed's new book, The
>>> Hemingses
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>
Monticello*<http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21855?utm_medium=email&utm_s
>>> ource=Ca
>>>>
>>>
mpaign+Monitor&utm_content=91964597&utm_campaign=Joseph+Lelyveld+on+John
>>> +%26+Sar
>>>>
>>>
ah%2c+Michael+Chabon+on+Obama&utm_term=Jefferson%26%238217%3bs+Concubine
>>>>(10-9-0
>>>> 8)
>>>>
>>>> The Hemingses of Monticello is a brilliant book. It marks the
author
>>> as one
>>>> of the most astute, insightful, and forthright historians of this
>>>> generation. Not least of Annette Gordon-Reed's achievements is her
>>> ability
>>>> to bring fresh perspectives to the life of a man whose personality
and
>>>> character have been scrutinized, explained, and justified by a host
of
>>>> historians and biographers. They have struggled to illuminate, and
>>> sometimes
>>>> to gloss over, the dark places in his life. Like many upright
public
>>> figures
>>>> who know they are pure and their enemies vile, he was capable of
>>> deviousness
>>>> and treachery. He instigated the savage attacks by the
anti-Federalist
>>>> National Gazette editor Philip Freneau on John Adams, once his fast
>>> friend,
>>>> and was flummoxed rather than ashamed at being caught out paying
>>> Freneau to
>>>> be his mouthpiece. Such actions gave rise in Jefferson biographies
to
>>>> characterizations like "enigma" and "sphinx."
>>>>
>>>> The full review is at http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21855?email
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jon Kukla
>>>> www.JonKukla.com
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________
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>>> instructions at
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>>>
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>>
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