Maitland,
I'm unsure what you mean by "several thousand soldiers hidden in
it's holes". I've never heard reference to the "holes" of a ship. Did you
mean hold? What happened to this ship? Did it land in the harbor? What
happened to the soldiers in the hold?
The south did have another option, rather than war. It was to
return to the negotiating table and settle the matter peacefully. If, as
you say, a previous ship was fired upon, then perhaps we should consider
the firing on that ship as the opening shot of the war. In either event,
the south made a distinct choice to commence the war. No matter the
provocation, one is generally responsible for ones own actions. The south
made a choice for war, and cannot blame Lincoln for their decision.
Anne
At 02:31 AM 2/26/03 -0800, you wrote:
>Ann,
>
>Negotiations were underway as Lincoln lied to the delegation from the
>South, not only SC, in that he would not resupply or reinforce Ft Sumter.
>What was called only a 'supply ship' had several thousand soldiers hidden
>in it's holes, as learned by Conferderate scouts in the North.
>
>Betrayed, the South had no other option than to protect itself. They did
>not want war, never did, just to be left alone. It was only after much
>discussion in the city of Charleston that the order to fire was given.
>
>This was not the first time the US flag had been fired on (The Star of
>the West, a ship that was sent to Ft Sumter about 2 months prior to the
>actual firing, was fired on by Confederate shore placements), and Lincoln
>in later years, admitted he had forced the hand of the South in order to
>bring the war forward, in order to remain control of the customs house at
>Charleston Harbor. (Ref. "Forced Into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White
>Dream" Berone Benett, Jr; "The Real Lincoln: A New Look at Abraham
>Lincoln, His Agenda, and an Unnecessary War" Thomas J. Dilorenzo). Both
>these books reference many of those who worked with Lincoln, to include
>his two secertaries, to back up the fact that Lincoln forced the South to
>'fire the first shot'.
>
>Lincoln, whil negoations were underway, lied, planned and dispatched the
>ship from New York, and ensured that the South was fully aware of the
>resupply ship, with the thousands of soldiers in it's hole.
>
>M. Westbrook
>
>--- Anne Pemberton <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > The fact is that SC chose not to await negotiations in a matter under
> > negotiations, and make the first strike. I do not feel that their hand
> > was
> > forced, it was an act they chose willingly and eagerly. The action
> > refutes
> > the words of Jeff
> > Davis.
> >
> >
> > Anne
> >
> > At 01:44 AM 2/25/03 -0800, you wrote:
> > >But, the fact lost here is that the South did not rebel, but secceeded,
> > >and the north forced the first hand by attempting to resupply the fort
> > in
> > >Charleston during discussions with the South and SC; this attempted
> > >resupply action was against agreements it [Lincoln] had made with SC.
> > >
> > >By the laws, and legal understandings of the time, seccission was
> > legal.
> > >
> > >In the words of Jefferson Davis.."...all we want is to be left alone."
> > Not
> > >exactly words of a 'rebel', who wishes to change or overthrow a
> > >government, neither of which the South aspired to do.
> > >
> > >M. Westbrook
> > >
> > >--- "Harold S. Forsythe" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > > > On the face of it, this is not really very convincing. I lived in
> > Los
> > > > Angeles in
> > > > 1965 when the National Guard occupied the central parts of the
> > > > city, supplementing inadequate police power (The LA or Watts
> > > > "Riot", "Uprising," etc.) Now, these chiefly white soldiers were
> > > > from out of town. Would this then have been a justification to take
> > > > up arms against them?
> > > > This whole business of "invasion" and "home" requires a
> > > > prerequisite of political thinking: the South or Virginia as home,
> > > > rather than the United States. Thus, white Unionists in western
> > > > Virginia, eastern Tennessee, and the Ozark Plateau were being
> > > > "defended" by Confederate troops, whereas northern Virginia and
> > > > southern Louisiana were being "invaded" by troops from
> > > > Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, and Wisconsin.
> > > > At the risk of contradiction, I assume that every rebelling
> > regional
> > > > group in history imagined that they were fighting for their
> > > > independence from forces at least alien, if not downright
> > tyrannical.
> > > > But such notions do not arise naturally or without effort, they are
> > > > cultivated and spread by a leadership group that expects, and
> > > > usually achieves leadership of the new nation.
> > > >
> > > > Date sent: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:59:14 -0800
> > > > From: Maitland Westbrook <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Subject: Re: Gods and Generals
> > > > To: [log in to unmask]
> > > > Send reply to: Discussion of research and writing about
> > > > Virginia history
> > > > <[log in to unmask]>
> > > >
> > > > > Per Shelby Foote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Union Soldier coming upon wounded Confederate laying on the
> > > > battlefield:
> > > > > "Why are you fighting us?!?!?"
> > > > >
> > > > > Confederate's Reply: "Because you are here."
> > > > >
> > > > > M. Westbrook, III
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- [log in to unmask] wrote:
> > > > > > How about the fact that their homes were being invaded, with all
> > > > that
> > > > > > that entails. People don't need much more motivation than that
> > to
> > > > take
> > > > > > up arms, whether they owned slaves or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > > > > > instructions
> > > > > > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________________
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> > > > instructions
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Harold S. Forsythe
> > > > Assistant Professor History
> > > > Director: Black Studies
> > > > Fairfield University
> > > > Fairfield, CT 06430-5195
> > > > (203) 254-4000 x2379
> > > >
> > > > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > > > instructions
> > > > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
> > >
> > >
> > >__________________________________________________
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> >
> > Anne Pemberton
> > [log in to unmask]
> >
> > http://www.erols.com/stevepem
> > http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
> >
> > To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the
> > instructions
> > at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
>
>
>__________________________________________________
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>Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
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>
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>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html
Anne Pemberton
[log in to unmask]
http://www.erols.com/stevepem
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