Psychotic persons are unable to differentiate between reality and illusions,
or imagination. I am of the opinion this frightening problem is probably
physically caused because of defects in the brain. Hopefully, grown-ups, or
even slobs, know the difference beween conclusions and opinions. I will not
honor opinions, even disgusting opinions, by calling them conclusions.
(Miss) Adrian Zolkover
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anne Pemberton" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 6:26 AM
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
> Adrian,
>
> You can believe whatever you please, but please stop with the insults on
> my conclusion that vary from yours. I don't think that Thomas Jefferson is
> made to appear more honorable by stacking up all the males he may have
> offered his slave to - that would make him a pimp!
>
> I am, perhaps, more swayed by the stories within the Hemings' families
> than you are. I do not discount them as easily as you do. The fact that
> the story in the Eston Hemings family was confirmed by DNA suggests that
> the remaining families are more likely to be based on truth rather than
> fiction. There are other evidentiary sources that you presume to ignore,
> including entried in diaries, the length and ardour of TJ's pursuit of
> Mrs. Walker, his foolish behavior with Mrs. Cosway in Paris, and the
> remarks of others who live at Monticello and told of the general knowledge
> among the staff of the relationship.
>
> You can believe what ever you please, but I think the circumstancial
> evidence is overwhelming. I only ask that your respect my conclusions, and
> those of many other historians who extensively research the available
> sources, and not draw unfounded conclusions about those who draw such
> different conclusions.
>
> Anne
>
> Anne Pemberton
> [log in to unmask]
> http://www.erols.com/apembert
> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adrian Zolkover" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 3:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>
>
>> Anne, re-screw your head on. Annette Gordon-Reed should be a fairy tale
>> writer or one who specializes in white lies, or worse, deliberate lies
>> about the person in his time that did more to end slavery and establish
>> democracy in the United States than any one else. Stop ignoring verified
>> historical documents published by experts in genealogy and history. Stop
>> ignoring his brother Randolph who even TJ said was at times not
>> incompetent to handle his own affairs, who lived 20 miles away, who
>> socialized with Thomas Jefferson's slaves, and who was widowed about the
>> time Sally began having babies, and remarried around the time Sally
>> stopped having babies; and Randolph's 4 sons who also visited and lived
>> at Monticello and were of child bearing age when Sally had her babies.
>> TJ's brilliance, accomplishments and principles, and attractiveness don't
>> seem to impress upon you that it just might be likely if he wanted a
>> lady's company he would not chose Sally; and that he could have his pick
>> of many other attractive and accomplished ladies and women. The way he
>> lived his life at home, when he was at Monticello, with his daughter, her
>> husband who managed Monticello, whose rooms were within seeing and
>> hearing distance of TJ's; and their 12 children; and rules that slaves
>> were not to be in his quarters when he was present indicates his tastes
>> and rules of behavior did not lend to your or Annette's made up tales.
>> Does the fact that Sally didn't have her first baby for 13 years after
>> TJ's wife died mean anything to you? Probably not, because you believe in
>> one fairy tale imaginary non existent baby, or one whose father was not
>> TJ, born in France. Let's make up things about you Anne and publish them.
>> I don't know who you are but I think even you possibly would not like
>> that. I think Thomas Jefferson's flaws in character are principally your
>> made up flaws. No thanks Anne. Pardon me if I wish you would keep those
>> to yourself.
>>
>> Miss Adrian Zolkover
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Anne Pemberton" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 9:00 PM
>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>>
>>
>>> Herbert,
>>>
>>> I am quite accustomed to your nasty replies anytime anyone praises those
>>> who disagree with you. Why you cannot just agree to disagree is beyond
>>> me.
>>>
>>> The fact that you can find NO proof that TJ fathered the children in
>>> question does not establish for a fact that he did not. It just means it
>>> has not been proven to your satisfaction. And, I feel quite certain that
>>> if you were faced with DNA evidence that Madison Hemings was fathered by
>>> a Jefferson male, you would go out of your way to argue it wasn't Tom.
>>>
>>> The fact that TJ is a Founding Father does NOT establish his sainthood.
>>> All of the Founding Fathers had flaws in character. Ben Franklin is
>>> probably my personal favorite Founding Father, and yet he publically
>>> admitted he father a child - a son that he raised to commit the same
>>> faux paus as his father, so that in his old age, Ben was raising that
>>> same grandson born out of wedlock. Ben was willing to admit his
>>> "mistakes" and did his best to make them right. TJ seemed, too often, to
>>> hide his mistakes from public scrutiny. What "honorable man" uses a
>>> writer to slander a friend, and then cries wolf when the same writer
>>> peeks into his own affairs?
>>>
>>> Anne
>>>
>>> Anne Pemberton
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Herbert Barger" <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 7:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes, and it is in many publications but this doesn't change the fact
>>>> that it is NOT true, but much of the media is involved in this agenda.
>>>> I
>>>> tell the readers that this book and other similar recent books is part
>>>> of an agenda and there is NO proof that TJ fathered any slave child.
>>>> Please consult: www.tjheritage.org for a full Scholars Commission
>>>> Report
>>>> (13 top scholars), who found NO proof of this liaison, SO may we not
>>>> ask
>>>> the author........what is your agenda and who is behind it.......not
>>>> that I don't know the answer and have for several years. That is why I
>>>> founded the Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society.....to counter the biased
>>>> research performed at Monticello and provide truthful and accurate
>>>> research to the public. We can use financial support at the above web
>>>> page address to continue our research.
>>>>
>>>> Herbert Barger
>>>> Jefferson Family Historian
>>>> Asst. to Dr Foster on the DNA Study
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
>>>> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Melinda Skinner
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2008 8:56 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] Annette Gordon-Reed praised by Edmund Morgan
>>>>
>>>> There's also an interesting article on the book in the New Yorker:
>>>> http://www.newyorker.com/search/query?keyword=8220 The Hemingses of
>>>> Monticello: An American Family 8221 (Norton 36 35)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Melinda C. P. Skinner
>>>> Richmond, VA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>>> From: Jon Kukla <[log in to unmask]>
>>>>> Posted at History News Network, Monday, September 22, 2008 Annette
>>>>> Gordon-Reed : Edmund Morgan calls her one of the best historians of
>>>> her
>>>>> generation <http://hnn.us/roundup/entries/54782.html>
>>>>>
>>>>> Source: *Marie Morgan and Edmund S. Morgan in the New York Review of
>>>> Books
>>>>> in the course of a review of Annette Gordon-Reed's new book, The
>>>> Hemingses
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>> Monticello*<http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21855?utm_medium=email&utm_s
>>>> ource=Ca
>>>>>
>>>> mpaign+Monitor&utm_content=91964597&utm_campaign=Joseph+Lelyveld+on+John
>>>> +%26+Sar
>>>>>
>>>> ah%2c+Michael+Chabon+on+Obama&utm_term=Jefferson%26%238217%3bs+Concubine
>>>>>(10-9-0
>>>>> 8)
>>>>>
>>>>> The Hemingses of Monticello is a brilliant book. It marks the author
>>>> as one
>>>>> of the most astute, insightful, and forthright historians of this
>>>>> generation. Not least of Annette Gordon-Reed's achievements is her
>>>> ability
>>>>> to bring fresh perspectives to the life of a man whose personality and
>>>>> character have been scrutinized, explained, and justified by a host of
>>>>> historians and biographers. They have struggled to illuminate, and
>>>> sometimes
>>>>> to gloss over, the dark places in his life. Like many upright public
>>>> figures
>>>>> who know they are pure and their enemies vile, he was capable of
>>>> deviousness
>>>>> and treachery. He instigated the savage attacks by the anti-Federalist
>>>>> National Gazette editor Philip Freneau on John Adams, once his fast
>>>> friend,
>>>>> and was flummoxed rather than ashamed at being caught out paying
>>>> Freneau to
>>>>> be his mouthpiece. Such actions gave rise in Jefferson biographies to
>>>>> characterizations like "enigma" and "sphinx."
>>>>>
>>>>> The full review is at http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21855?email
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jon Kukla
>>>>> www.JonKukla.com
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
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