check out the website link towards the end of this email. then when you get there read the article.


-----Original Message-----
From: macbd1 <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, 29 Sep 2008 2:54 pm
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] ANSWERS & IMPORTANCE - Annette Gordon-Reed


Anne, to continue after a very nice weekend, I understand even more now that your 'quote' supposedly by TJ as a *teenager*, but more accurately from his collection of literary excerpts in his Literary Commonplace Book, a 'quote' that you say is only from your memory, not directly from Kukla's book..... and this is your supposed "damning evidence" against TJ...??
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My introducing politics into our discussion is certainly not a sucker punch for you to shrug off to readers. It is instead very pertinent to the 'Cultural Wars' in our nation, and specifically for disussion at VA-HIST, concerning the rather small academic group that is leading a frontal attack against Thomas Jefferson and his great contributions to the founding and growth of our United States of America. In fact, James D. Hunter, Professor of Sociology and Religious Studies at the University of Virginia has much to say about this in his book, _Cultural Wars: the Struggle to Define America_ -- that there is a battle raging between 'traditionalists' (conservatives if you will) who are committed to moral ideals inherited from the past, and 'progressivists' (liberals) who idealize change and flexibility (even toward revising our nation's history.) Hunter says, "these debates concerning the wide range of social institutions amount to *_a struggle over the meaning of America."_* (emphasis added.)?
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Hunter goes on during a 2006 debate arranged by the PEW Research Foundation to seemingly point his finger directly at VA-HIST's battleground and the academic-elite attackers of TJ:?
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"What I have left out of this empirical part so far is the role of elites, the political professionals, the special interest leaders. The critics of the Culture Wars hypothesis tend to minimize their role or to dismiss it all together. I find the role of elites to be extremely important, and it's precisely because of the disproportionate role that they play in framing public discussion. It's they who lead the institutions, who have the resources available to them, who have a disproportionate access to the media. It is their sound bites that frame the debate. From my vantage point, the power of culture is the power to define reality, the power to frame the debate, and that power resides among the elites. But they are supported in concentric circles by increasingly large numbers, though of less and less passion."?
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What is not included here with regard to the attacks on TJ, and their attempted impact on how our nation's history is perceived, is the mis-information used by these academic elitists, their mis-stating of facts, their mis-leading of the general public, and repeating these 'misses' so many times that even Dr. Hardwick seems confused in his attempt at a conclusion (let's just compromise at TJ fathering 'some' of SH's children) -- while some of the general public now 'know' (with absolute certainty) that TJ fathered 'all' of SH's children, whether that be 6, 7 or whatever -- because that's what these academics have told them so many times -- and that DNA evidence proves it!(NOT, not even as to one child.) Whether or not the public, or even a majority of academia, will go along with a complete revision of our nation's history, its foundation and perception of our founders' images and beliefs, and in what context, is yet to be seen -- recalling attack-leader Joseph Ellis speaking pejoratively about TJ being "the dead white male who matters most" (to tear down) as "the most valued trophy in the cultural wars" (today but what's next.)?
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In case you may wonder, I have no connection to/with Herb Barger or tjheritage.org. In fact, he was likely surprised to see this staunch a supporter show up at a leftist academics' forum (for the most part.) Like you, Anne, I am not a professional historian; instead retired from an entirely different technical/managerial career. My interest is to address some wrongs that I see in our world and this one readily caught my eye several months ago at VA-HIST with American history being one of my keen interests. This led to some serious research and here I am. There is much more to this TJ issue than counting the number of SH's children and speculating about their father(s?) Btw, we've counted at least two of the latter, ya know, so far, if you believe the DNA evidence, that Ellis tried to wash-away in the second instance, but he wanted to keep the one instance and s-t-r-e-t-c-h it to include a given name.?
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Finally, a little DWM / TJ levity or irony :?
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http://www.theblackrepublican.net/archives/002868.html?
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Neil McDonald?
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Anne Pemberton" <[log in to unmask]>?
To: <[log in to unmask]>?
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2008 11:36 PM?
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] ANSWERS - Annette Gordon-Reed?
?
> snip?
> I did not quote Jon Kukla with book in hand, but from memory reading it in > recent months. Whether or not in the many small print pages at the end of > the book which I typically do not read, he specified exactly in what > condition the materials were, I cannot say. He did say that it was written > when Tom was a teenager and trying to come to grips with a value system > for meeting his personal needs.?
> snip?
?
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