David,

Well let us settle on your stated belief that there is no conclusive
evidence to prove TJ's paternity. This makes you and I in total
agreement BUT it is 180 degrees from AGR in her current book dust cover
lie that states that TJ fathered 7 Hemings children over 38 years. As a
professor in one of our seats of learning can you not agree? 

There is a lot of "suggestive" evidence that the sun rises because the
rooster crows, HOWEVER we don't quiet believe that do we? Your statement
about my remarks not being in the vein of academic writing might just be
correct because I don't claim to fit into that group of our learned
professors but I do recognize lies and political correctness and
historical revisionism when I see it. I let the scholars of the Scholars
Commission and other learned and distinguished professors do the "heavy
lifting." I know nothing of YOUR academic honesty but I do find that
problem in several others who have demonstrated just that.

David, your mixed race comments and your information that you have
written A TJ book peak my interest. I don't seem to recall, having it
among my vast collection of TJ books. What is the title and where can I
find it? May you tell me if it or the AGR books are or will they be used
in teaching your students?

And now for replies to your three questions:
1. This might be better answered by some of your "young" students but
let me tell you that in the age of Jefferson, YES, there were fair
skinned blacks around ever plantation, BUT that proves nothing unless
some master or other person confesses to being a father. Thomas
Jefferson made no such remarks. Eston and family did fit this mold,
however, they NEVER stated orally that they descended from Thomas BUT
Randolph (a Jefferson uncle), as he was known by all of TJ's
grandchildren and the Hemings children and grandchildren.  
2. Someone looking at a fair-haired child may form some opinions but
unless someone admits it we cannot just say a certain person is guilty
of fathering them. Imagine AGR saying that TJ fathered 7
Hemings.......don't you academic people have any standards or does
Joseph Ellis and AGR set the standards? Those of your profession should
be ferreting out of your profession such people just as Ellis was run
off the campus.
3. As a layman family historian and therefore no "authority" on the
slavery issue, I leave that to you in those history field to write of
your opinions of TJ and others owning slaves. NUT, I do know from first
hand experience that when trying to interconnect the slavery issue with
parentage of slave children you are "barking up the wrong tree." You or
any of the earlier names I have mentioned have NO proof or even good
circumstantial evidence that TJ fathered slave children. What ever
happened to that old saying, "innocent until proven otherwise? David and
others named.........your agendas are showing and the public has had
their fill of this biased reporting.        

You and I both know that these three questions have very little
reference to the DNA Study and TJ's guilt, don't you have some REAL
tough questions?

Herb Barger
Jefferson Family Historian (I do not represent or speak for the TJ
Monticello Assn.)   

Mr. Barger, 

I don't believe I ever said that I thought Jefferson was "guilty" -- I
think my remarks were plain enough: there is no conclusive evidence to
prove Jefferson's paternity, but there is a significant amount of
suggestive evidence that certainly raises the possibility; and at the
same time, I also have never seen anything produced that proves that
Jefferson was NOT the father of her children.   Even Jefferson's own
comments are more evasion than denial.

But your insistence on using such strong language: "guilty" and "lies"
and descriptions of asking the quesiton as "down in the gutter"
validates my point that your effort here is not that of academic history
writing.   I will not comment on the work of other scholars whose works
you mention, except to state that I have found much merit and many
thoughtful insights in their works, and I have been pleased to  but I
dispute your unkind depiction of their and my academic honesty.

To the LIST-at-large (as well, of course, to Mr. Barger),

I must say that when the whole Jefferson-Hemings DNA storm broke all
those years ago I was actually hoping that the discovery might do more
to shine light on the issue of inter-racial sexual activity and more
importantly (I thought then and think now) on the peculiar place of the
mixed-race offspring of such unions.  I have written a biography of
Jefferson, but I don't really care one way or the other about the
paternity issue.  But the entire instance raises some interesting points
for me as a historian.  The supposition of Sally Hemings being extremely
fair would no doubt produce very phenotypically white children.  Yet
such children were legally slaves -- they looked white, but were
"black."  Jefferson, of course, finally freed the Hemings children, but
there were far more fair-skinned slaves in the population -- so here are
my QUESTIONS (numbered at the request of Mr. Barger): 

1.) What does the presence of fair skinned, white-appearing black slaves
tell us about the perception of race in the age of Jefferson?  
2.)  Did whites look at a fair-haired child, and knowing that child's
history, "see" a black child?
3.) What do Jefferson's own words, actions, etc. (quite apart from the
contentious issue of his possible paternity of mixed race children) tell
us about these issues?


I look forward to Mr. Barger's promised answers and those of anyone else
who wishes to comment.

David Kiracofe

>May I please suggest that you or anyone else, Kevin, Jon, Dan Jordan,
Peter Onuf, Joseph Ellis, AGR and any of the others may wish to ask
questions and state WHY you believe TJ is guilty and list them 1, 2, 3,
etc. and I will answer each question. Fair enough? As you
state..........nothing proves him guilty SO why do folks write lies and
sell books?? I don't consider that I set the "bars to high" what are we
talking here, asking truth when discussing a founding father or down in
the gutter talk that some recent posters have written. Yes, pose your
beliefs.

Herb



David Kiracofe
History
Tidewater Community College
Chesapeake Campus
1428 Cedar Road
Chesapeake, Virginia 23322
757-822-5136

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