He also says things -- such as blacks may have sex with orangutans -- which he surely must have known were not true. This is pretty over the top.
But, it is also important to note that he compares American slaves to Roman slaves and says that Roman slaves achieved great things because they were are race of "white slaves." He compares blacks to Indians and argues you can educate Indians and that they have imagination. Even when confronted with black accomplishment he rejects it. He denounces Phyllis Wheatley's poetry as not being very good (which went against the view of most intellectuals at that time) but a few years later when asked to advice someone on the books his child should read, refuses to suggest any books on poetry because he claims not to really understand it. So, if black writes poetry he knows its bad, but he also admits he is no expert on poetry. He praised Benjamin Banneker but later writes a close ally and friend that Banneker had "a common mind."
In Notes he also categorically declares that blacks cannot write poetry -- none can. That they have no facility for music, or art. Or Mathematics.
I detail all this with quotations and citation in Slavery and the Founders.
*************************
Paul Finkelman
John Hope Franklin Visiting Professor of American Legal History
Duke University School of Law
210 Science Drive
Box 90360
Durham, NC 27708-0360
919-613-7038 (o)
518-605-0296 (c)
[log in to unmask]
www.paulfinkelman.com
********************
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John and Liz Ragosta
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 9:28 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] (VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
Paul: I'm not one to defend Jefferson on slavery, but in his discussion of the races in the Notes , he does make an interesting observation and concession (which might qualify the view that blacks could never be equal): He recognizes that generations of abject subjugation may have resulted in some of the characteristics which he sees as racial (e.g. the question of education v. intelligence). This is an important observation, and I always point it out to my students, not so much as to defend Jefferson but to note that he recognized the problem which we still grapple w/ in education today. John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul <[log in to unmask]> Finkelman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:22:09 PM
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] (VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
The problem is that so many Jefferson scholars want him to be perfect. They want do make him a benevolent slaveowner -- he was not; or someone who fought against slavery -- he did not; or someone who favored equality -- when in fact he was the founder of scientific racism arguing that blacks could NEVER be equal.
He does not stand up well to many of his contemporaries who were opposed to slavery, freed their slaves, rarely if ever sold slaves, and worked to improve the status and condition of free blacks. When Edward Coles wanted to free his slaves (which he did) Jefferson urged him not to so because free blacks were "pests" on society according to Jefferson.
The comparison with China or the Islamic world or any other society is a red herring. We are concerned with the evolution of the US and the meaning of the Declaration of Independence. By your standards we should not be concerned about segregation in the US because South Africa was worse, or we should not be concerned about the KKK because the Nazis were worse; or not care about the suppression of free speech or freedom of religion in this country because the USSR was worse. I can't imagine anyone on this list would reach these conclusions. Similarly we should take Jefferson on his own terms and in his own world and times, and compare him to what he claimed to believe and what he did; and compare him to the best of his generation. He does not hold up so well.
*************************************************
Paul Finkelman, Ph.D.
President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law Albany Law School
80 New Scotland Avenue
Albany, NY 12208
518-445-3386 (p)
518-445-3363 (f)
[log in to unmask]
www.paulfinkelman.com
*************************************************
________________________________________
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Barry McMullan [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 10:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [VA-HIST] (VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
Opinion,
Slavery was wrong, but didn't the Chinese and Muslims practice slavery long after Jefferson's time. Being from another time, we shouldn't judge Jefferson unless all these others are considered also. Is he being singled out because he was one of the architects of our country, he was not a perfect person as we all are imperfect?
Respectfully,
Barry McMullan
________________________________
From: "Finkelman, Paul <[log in to unmask]>" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 2:19 PM
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] (VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
Alternatively, how could be "at the expense of Jefferson" to discuss the very economic basis of Monticello -- the reason Jefferson could afford to build it and maintain it?
Most of what Jefferson accomplished was due to the slaves who provided him with wealth, food, income for his toys and luxuries, built his house, served his guest, and gave him comfort when he wished for it. Jefferson could read his books, write his one book, participate in politics, run for office, write his thousands of letters because of his slaves.
And of course much of his political life was connected to slavery -- indeed his election to the presidency was possible only because of the 3/5th clause that counted slaves for representation and for the electoral college.
*************************
Paul Finkelman
John Hope Franklin Visiting Professor of American Legal History Duke University School of Law
210 Science Drive
Box 90360
Durham, NC 27708-0360
919-613-7038 (o)
518-605-0296 (c)
[log in to unmask]
http://www.paulfinkelman.com/
********************
-----Original Message-----
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Corneliussen
Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 9:18 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [VA-HIST] (VA-HIST] "The Monster of Monticello"
Mr. Barger complained that Monticello's "emphasis...on slavery issues" comes "at the expense of Mr. Jefferson." To me that seems upside down. The emphasis in fact honors Mr. Jefferson.
Mr. Jefferson matters because self-evident but challenging truths matter.
It's too bad that Monticello, like the rest of us, failed for many decades to begin elucidating and respecting the lives, dignity and contributions of individual Americans obscenely oppressed by fellow Americans -- including by Mr. Jefferson, the paradoxically slaveholding human-rights idealist.
If Monticello had continued its former Gone-with-the-Windism on slavery late into the last century, if the curators had persisted in obscuring Americans'
lives on that mountain, it would have been the foundation's civic, historical and moral negligence that would have come at the expense of Mr.
Jefferson.
But they got it right. Good for them. Good for self-evident truths.
Good for Mr. Jefferson.
Steven T. Corneliussen
http://www.fortmonroenationalpark.org/
http://tjscience.org/
http://www.physicstoday.org/daily_edition/science_and_the_media
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