Sorry you can't see the relevance.

Lyle


On Feb 14, 2007, at 9:25 PM, Clara Callahan wrote:

> Your question is irrelevant.
>
> "Lyle E. Browning" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:  On Feb 14, 2007, at  
> 7:51 PM, Clara Callahan wrote:
>
>> Uh, no.....my position is that the states had the right to secede
>> and Lincoln was a tyrant who violated the Constitution and the
>> outcome was 700,000 dead Americans.
> Uh, yes...your position taken to the logical extreme is that the USA
> and CSA go their separate ways. The 700k dead Amis was the
> consequence of holding together that Union. Absent the Civil War, my
> postulate is correct from the way your phrasing had it. My question
> is still unanswered: Would you be here had it happened? And how many
> of the rest of us would be here had it happened?
>
> Lyle Browning
>>
>> "Lyle E. Browning" wrote: So the logical
>> outcome of your position would be that the USA and the
>> CSA split? I wonder how many of us would be here now were that to
>> have been the case? I daresay hardly any. And as for what would have
>> happened in WWII and the Cold War, presuming they still happened
>> without the currently configured USA, I'd have to wonder whether we'd
>> all be in a far greater pickle.
>>
>> Dorm-room arguments are one thing, reality is another.
>>
>> Lyle Browning
>>
>>
>> On Feb 14, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Clara Callahan wrote:
>>
>>> I never said any such thing. Basil did, and he has a right to his
>>> opinion and a right to voice it and I have a right to agree or
>>> disagree with him. I also never said that all Indians are
>>> savages. I said that Indians who murdered and mutilated were
>>> savages and to portray them as respectable would be a lie.
>>>
>>> Abraham Lincoln, may his name live on in infamy, was responsible
>>> for the deaths of 700,000 of the citizens he took an oath to
>>> protect, many of them Indian and black. He advocated a scorched
>>> earth policy and gave tacit approval to rampage, rape and murder.
>>> He intentionally destroyed an entire society, not because
>>> Southerners owned slaves but because he didn't want to let states
>>> who from the get-go had constitutional rights to secede do so. He
>>> exiled newspapermen, jailed people who spoke out against him, freed
>>> only those slaves behind Confederate lines, yadda yadda yadda. HE
>>> wasn't respectable, either. The man should have been tried for war
>>> crimes and handed over to a firing squad. Which, come to think of
>>> it, is kinda sorta but not exactly what happened. If you knew
>>> anything about him at all, you would know that he was not anti-
>>> slavery until he started losing the war. He made it clear he did
>>> not want blacks in the state of Illinois and he was open and on
>>> record
>>> about his view that blacks could never be equal to whites. He
>>> wanted to ship all of them back to Africa.
>>>
>>> Your label of "terrorist" is incorrect and insulting to
>>> descendents of Confederate soldiers, Virginian or otherwise.
>>> Furthermore, and just for the record, the Practitioners of the
>>> Religion of Peace did not have their way in Pennsylvania. They
>>> were headed for Washington until the passengers cut their trip  
>>> short.
>>>
>>> You haven't answered my question.
>>>
>>> Anne Pemberton wrote:
>>> Clara,
>>>
>>> You were the one who said folks who were wronged should just "get
>>> over it".
>>> You are the one who insists that Native Americans are savages for
>>> the acts
>>> of a few, despite the peaceful good nature of the rest of them.
>>> Now, it is
>>> your turn to just "get over it".
>>>
>>> I find it amusing that the legislature that refuses to honor
>>> Lincoln so long
>>> after the civil war is over, is the same legislature that wretched
>>> and
>>> waffled over apologizing to the descendents of former slaves until
>>> they so
>>> watered down the words they used as to be disrespectful.
>>>
>>> Anne
>>>
>>>
>>> Anne Pemberton
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> http://www.erols.com/stevepem
>>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Clara Callahan"
>>> To:
>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 5:14 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Long memories
>>>
>>>
>>>> So lemme get this straight. Descendents of southerners who lived
>>>> through
>>>> the invasion need to get over it but descendents of blacks and
>>>> Indians
>>>> don't?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anne Pemberton wrote:
>>>> Henry,
>>>>
>>>> Apparently, some people do not perceive the need to "get over it",
>>>> they
>>>> just
>>>> inflict that flippancy to those they disrespect.
>>>>
>>>> Never mind that Virginians "laid waste " to the lives, homes, and
>>>> lands of
>>>> the Native Americans. That was OK. But for Lincoln to respond to  
>>>> the
>>>> attack
>>>> of the southern terrorists, was certainly indecent of him. He
>>>> should have
>>>> just let those terrorists have their way, as they did in the
>>>> countryside
>>>> of
>>>> Pennsylvania.
>>>>
>>>> Anne
>>>>
>>>> Anne Pemberton
>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>> http://www.erols.com/stevepem
>>>> http://www.erols.com/apembert
>>>> http://www.educationalsynthesis.org
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Henry Wiencek"
>>>> To:
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:02 PM
>>>> Subject: Long memories
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This just in on the AP wire:
>>>>
>>>> RICHMOND, Va.
>>>>
>>>> Virginia lawmakers killed legislation today that would have made
>>>> Virginia
>>>> part of the national commemoration of Abraham Lincoln's 200th
>>>> birthday.
>>>>
>>>> . . . Robert Lamb of Richmond, a member of the Sons of Confederate
>>>> Veterans, told the committee that Lincoln ... quote ... "sent
>>>> armies into
>>>> Virginia to lay waste to our land."
>>>>
>>>> ***
>>>>
>>>> I guess "with malice toward none" doesn't cut it any longer. Do I
>>>> hear
>>>> anyone saying "Get over it"?
>>>>
>>>> Henry Wiencek
>>>> Charlottesville
>>>>
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