It's not breaking a contract to exercise a contractual option to withdraw,
any more than it would be to pull out of the UN or the NATO. Do you think
that Spain and Germany would be entitled to burn your house down if the
USA decided to withdraw from the UN or NATO?
George Nicholas and Governor Edmund Randolph, the two spokesmen for the
five-man committee that drafted Virginia's instrument of ratification
(handily provided to us by Brent Tarter earlier), explained that VA was to
be one of thirteen parties to a compact and that it could withdraw at
will. This was the common understanding of the "federal republic" in
1788, as well. All of this is recounted in chapter 3 of my book.
Marshall and Madison were two of the other three members of that
committee, and they sat silently through that explanation. Again, see
chapter 3 of my book.
Washington's views on this issue were unknown at the time. He apparently
did believe that Virginia was sovereign, however, as he thought that it
could withdraw both from the British empire and from the Confederation. On
the issue of Virginians' conception of their society's place in the world,
see chapter 1 of _Virginia's American Revolution_ and my article,
"Jefferson's Draft Declaration of Independence, Richard Bland, and the
Revolutionary Legacy: Giving Credit Where Credit Is Due," The Journal of
the Historical Society 1 (2001), 137-154.
Kevin Gutzman
Kevin R. C. Gutzman, J.D., Ph.D.
Associate Professor of History
Western Connecticut State University
See _Who Killed the Constitution? The Fate of American Liberty from World
War I to George W. Bush_ on Amazon.com!
Paul Finkelman <[log in to unmask]>
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Re: [VA-HIST] Ratification of the Constitution
Kevin: Are you claiming that people like John Marshall and James Madison
and George Washington believed that VA. could pull out of the US govt.
whenever 50.1% of the legislature called for a convention and 50.1% of
the delegates of that convention said, "let's break our contract with the
rest of the US and leave"?
Paul Finkelman
President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law
and Public Policy
Albany Law School
80 New Scotland Avenue
Albany, New York 12208-3494
518-445-3386
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>>> Kevin Gutzman <[log in to unmask]> 06/30/08 10:14 AM >>>
One little quibble with Brent Tarter: it isn't rebellion or treason to
act pursuant to the established constitution. Thus, if what Virginia did
in 1861 was consistent with its obligations under the Constitution, it
wasn't rebellion, any more than for the USA to withdraw from the UN or the
NATO would be treason or rebellion.
The leading Virginia Federalists of 1788 repeatedly told their compatriots
in the ratification convention that they could secede from the Union. See
chapter three of my _Virginia's American Revolution: From Dominion to
Republic, 1776-1840_ (Lanham, Maryland: Lexington Books, 2007) on this
topic.
Kevin Gutzman
Kevin R. C. Gutzman, J.D., Ph.D.
Associate Professor of History
Western Connecticut State University
See _Who Killed the Constitution? The Fate of American Liberty from World
War I to George W. Bush_ on Amazon.com!
"Tarter, Brent (LVA)" <[log in to unmask]>
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[VA-HIST] Ratification of the Constitution
I believe that Kevin Hardwick has overlooked an interesting and
pertinent fact about ratification of the Constitution.
When the Virginia Convention voted to ratify the Constitution in June
1788, the instrument of ratification began with this language:
"WE the Delegates of the people of Virginia, duly elected in pursuance
of a recommendation from the General Assembly, and now met in
Convention, having fully and freely investigated and discussed the
proceedings of the Federal Convention, and being prepared as well as the
most mature deliberation hath enabled us, to decide thereon, DO, in the
name and in behalf of the people of Virginia, declare and make known
that the powers granted under hte Constitution, being derived from the
people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same
shall be perverted to their injury or oppression, and that every power
not granted thereby remains with them and at their will. . . ."
The Ordinance of Secession that the Virginia Convention of 1861 proposed
in April 1861 and that a majority of the people who voted in the
referendum ratified in May specifically cited that clause in the
Virginia instrument of ratification.
There is a clause in the Virginia Declaration of Rights of 1776 that
since 1830 has been part of the Virginia Constitution that reserves to
the people the right of revolution.
Does or did that make secession legal? It certainly did in the eyes of
the people who approved of it in 1861. Did the outcome of the war in
1865 effectively render secession impossible, illegal, or
unconstitutional? If you revolt and win, it's revolution; if you revolt
and lose, it's treason because the winners get to set the terms.
Brent Tarter
The Library of Virginia
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Please visit the Library of Virginia's Web site at
http://www.lva.virginia.gov
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