A rapid influx of Virginians, both slave and free, compromised the French
culture of early Missouri long before the Compromise in 1821--controlling
the economy, filling top leadership positions pre- and post-statehood,
revolutionizing Indian policies and fur trading, and ultimately making
Jefferson a most-admired hero, second only to his native state, as
measured by named monuments and even the capital of Missouri.
The Surge of Migrations following the Louisiana Purchase had its
origins in the Revolutionary War Era when George Rogers Clark
invaded the Illinois Country and claimed the region for Virginia.
What is missing from most of the posts on this issue is SPECIFIC
INFORMATION! For more details and explanations, see my books:
Founding St. Louis: First City of the New West (2011) and Historic
St. Louis: 250 Years Exploring New Frontiers (2014).
J. Frederick Fausz
History Professor
University of Missouri-St. Louis
In a message dated 9/8/2014 3:42:02 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Craig--
If you were not replying to Paul, then that means your comment was
directed to me, as I am the only other person to post on the issue with whom you
might disagree. My contribution to the conversation did use the term "sold
south," and asserted that something in excess of 500,000 enslaved persons
were sold out of state, and more likely the number is closer to a million.
I supported my analysis with some very rough calculations derived from
pretty basic US Census data. While I did not reference it, there is of course
a literature on this subject, some of which is referenced in Fisher and
Kelly, BOUND AWAY.
You raise an alternate possibility. Rather than being sold out of state,
the 800,000 or so enslaved persons who we have reason to believe were born
in the state but who were absent in 1860 perhaps instead accompanied their
owners, as their owners immigrated from the state and took their slaves
with them.
You are surely correct that at least some of the "absent" enslaved persons
in 1860 left the state in this fashion. Do you have any evidence,
however, that permits us to assess the relative significance of the one kind of
migration (out of state sale) vs. the other kind (slaves accompanying their
owners, when their owners immigrated)? Moreover, do we have any evidence to
suggest the relative scale of the migration to the deep south, vs. to
other destinations, eg. Kentucky or Tennessee?
All best wishes,
Kevin
___________________________
Kevin R. Hardwick
Associate Professor
Department of History, MSC 8001
James Madison University
Harrisonburg, Virginia 22807
________________________________________
From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Craig Kilby [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 2:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Out-migration from Virginia early 1810-1840
Dear Paul,
I am so sorry you are insulted and deeply offended. I have no idea why you
should be. I did not mention you by name, and in fact was not really
referring to you specifically, just the comment that 800,000 slaves were sold
into the Deep South and that the huge out-migration had many aspects that
should be considered. In that vein, I talked about out-migration of small
slave-holding families to the Ohio and Mississippi River Valleys, specifically
Kentucky, Missouri and Arkansas. Nowhere did I say anything about
Mississippi which I do not think was an area highly sought-after by the outwardly
bound Virginians and their slave families.
It is indeed true that small slave owners had slaves owned by other people
on other farms. More often than not, these groups moved in bulk, and webs
of kinship were deep. I do not think that kinships were quite as uprooted
as you would like to believe. Again, the humanity factor comes into play
here. These were not massive cotton plantation families like the in the deep
south. These were close-knit family units. These were real people with real
feelings and attachments. I know this does not fit well into the narrative
of evil white people tearing up black families, but on this I suppose we
will have to disagree.
Craig Kilby
On Sep 5, 2014, at 4:52 PM, Finkelman, Paul wrote:
> Dear Mr. Kilby:
>
> In all but one of my three posts on this issue (I believe this is my
4th), I have mentioned white out-migration and specifically talked about it in
terms of the lack of growth in the whole Va. population in the 1830s. I
also mentioned it in my last post earlier today. It is an important piece
of this history.
>
> [Remember, however, this discussion began with manumission, not
migration.]
>
> However, your argument about slaves being taken to the Southwest not
being forced is nonsense.
>
> How many slaves would have said, "oh, I can't wait to labor in a place
that is hotter than Va. and where there are more snakes as well as
alligators. Yes,I just can't wait to get the Mississippi Delta."
>
> Furthermore, your notion of family is wrong. Small slaveowners often
had slaves who were married to slaves owned by other people. And there were
kinship networks that extended well beyond a single farm or plantation or
planter.
>
> We are all trying to figure out what this history of the United States
is like. We are talking about VA because this is a VA history list-serve.
We could have a similar conversation on a KY, MD, DEL, or NC list serve.
Even SC was an exporter in the after 1820. We are hardly picking on
Virginia. In fact, in my last post I noted that slave mortality in Virginia was
probably lower than the southwest because of differences in climate and
crops.
>
> I find your last comment insulting and deeply offensive. I "make my
living" teaching and I make a little money lecturing and writing history. I
make nothing from spending my time writing for this list-serve. Up to now
this has been a civil conversation about serious issues. You have now
made an ad hominem attack on me and the other professional scholars on this
list. Do you really think that I am doing this for the money?
>
> *************************************************
> Paul Finkelman
> Senior Fellow
> Penn Program on Democracy, Citizenship, and Constitutionalism
> University of Pennsylvania
> and
> Scholar-in-Residence
> National Constitution Center
> Philadelphia, PA
>
> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law, Emeritus
> Albany Law School
>
> 518-439-7296 (p)
> 518-605-0296 (c)
>
> [log in to unmask]
> www.paulfinkelman.com
> *************************************************
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history
[[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Craig Kilby [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2014 4:21 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [VA-HIST] Out-miration from Virginia early 1810-140
>
> The recent discussion on Virginia out-migration has focused entirely on
how many Virginia slaves were sold at auction to deep-south plantations.
One estimate now has the number up to 800,000 poor souls.
>
> Left out of this discussion is out-migration in general. White families
with only a few slaves moving west. Particularly after the War of 1812 to
places like Missouri and Arkansas--by the thousands. I think if one is going
to do statistical analysis of migration, one should not focus solely on
the figures of Virginia's population changes and then make assumptions. One
should take into consideration the huge increase of populations of new slave
states like Missouri and Arkansas, and perhaps then draw more solid
conclusions.
>
> I also have to take exception to the term "forced migration" of those
slaves who went with the thousands of small slave-holding white families
westward. This was not the Batan death march. These family units lived and
worked together and, I would hazard, talked about the move, its pros and cons,
before just taking a whip to their few slaves and ordering them to get a
move on.
>
> I fully understand that many modern historians make a good living
reminding us of the evils of slavery, but sometimes I wish they would take a look
at the broader picture of humanity in general, and go beyond the borders
of the Old Dominion in doing so.
>
> Craig Kilby
> ______________________________________
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