VA-HIST Archives

Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history

VA-HIST@LISTLVA.LIB.VA.US

Options: Use Forum View

Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
David Konig <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Discussion of research and writing about Virginia history <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:51:17 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (131 lines)
I think that we must rely on Herbert Sloan's explanation of TJ's Paris 
buying spree to understand these purchases.  As I understand Sloan, all 
purchases made by the U.S. minister for the legation in Paris were paid 
for by the American government, as part of the practice of "outfitting" 
the residence.  TJ did not spend any of his own money on these.  This is 
no longer the case, but at the time the minister had to establish an 
entire staff and to furnish the legation (not yet "embassy") with 
everything, and the government paid for it.  What misleads us, however, 
is the (now incomprehensible) fact that these purchases became the 
property of the minister on his return to the US (hence, the huge cargo 
of boxes, tho' perhaps not all were "outfit" purchases).   In any event, 
what TJ purchased paled by comparison with what the French aristocracy 
was accustomed to.  That should not not be the proper comparison, of 
course, but it is proper to compare what TJ purchased to what his 
successor, Gouverneur Morris, splurged on:  Morris went way beyond what 
TJ bought.
    I am indebted to Prof. Sloan for clarifying this misunderstood 
matter when he lectured at Monticello.  There he pointed out that our 
understanding of the matter also suffers from the fact that so many of  
these purchases remained together at Monticello for all of us to see and 
wonder at, while those of other diplomats were scattered among 
descendants.  (This lecture was cited by a previous response to this 
question, and is available at the ICJS website.  I urge anyone 
interested in TJ and his "debts" to consult it.)

-- 
David Thomas Konig
Professor of History and Law
Washington University in St. Louis
1 Brookings Drive
Campus Box 1062
St. Louis, MO 63130
Phone: 314-935-5459




Paul Finkelman wrote:
> a slide that was exacerbated by his inability to control his own personal spending; his wine bill alone (something many of us can related to) must have been staggering; and the descriptions of what he brought home from France are truly amazing.
>
> Garry Wills points out that while in France "Jefferson went on a buying spree" that "was staggering in its intensity.  At times it must have looked as if he meant to take much of Paris back with him to his mountain 'château.'"  When he left France, he shipped eighty-six large crates back to the United States.  His treasures included "sixty-three oil paintings, seven busts by Houdon, forty-eight formal chairs, Sèvres table sculptures of biscuit, damask hangings, four full-length mirrors in gilt frames, four marble-topped tables, 120 porcelain plates, and numberless items of personal luxury."   
>
> He of courser paid for all this by selling at least 85 slaves in the late 1780s and early 1790s.  
>
> Paul Finkelman
> President William McKinley Distinguished Professor of Law
>      and Public Policy
> Albany Law School
> 80 New Scotland Avenue
> Albany, New York   12208-3494
>
> 518-445-3386 
> [log in to unmask]
>   
>>>> Heritage Society <[log in to unmask]> 07/11/07 12:11 PM >>>
>>>>         
> "He inherited great wealth from his father-in-law, John
> Wayles, and a manageable debt, which he mismanaged"
>
> The Wayles inheritance of land and slaves did advance Jefferson's balance
> sheet. But these assets were paper and the problem was the liabilities that
> came along with the estate, which were immediate and required cash to the
> British creditors. Rather than keep the estate in probate until the debts
> were paid, the executors, of which Jefferson was one, decided to convey the
> estate in thirds (Martha Jefferson and her two sisters were the
> beneficiaries). This had the effect of transferring all of the Wayles'
> debts to the executor's personal estates. There was a sale of land and
> slaves in what was thought sufficient to pay the debts. The buyers gave
> their bonds for the purchase price and these were paid off in virtually
> worthless paper currency under the legal tender acts passed by Virginia
> during the war. A substantial portion of the assets were gone but the debts
> remained and interest continue to run. Far from being "great wealth" that
> Jefferson  "mismanaged," the Wayles inheritance began  Jefferson's lifelong
> slide into increasing debt. 
>
>
> Richard E. Dixon
> Editor, Jefferson Notes 
> Thomas Jefferson Heritage Society
> 703-691-0770
> fax 703-691-0978
>
>
>
>   
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Henry Wiencek <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: 7/10/2007 3:07:38 PM
>> Subject: [VA-HIST] TJ's debts
>>
>> The PBS statement that TJ's charity broke him is ridiculous. In no way did
>> his charities sink him. Jefferson's financial picture was very complicated
>> and hard to summarize briefly. He wrote everything down, and never added
>> anything up: "For tho' I kept such exact entries in my daily memorandum
>>     
> book
>   
>> as would enable me, or anybody else, to state the account accurately in a
>> day, yet I had never collected the items, or formed them into an account,
>> till within these few days."  He successfully juggled creditors for his
>> entire adult life.  He inherited great wealth from his father-in-law, John
>> Wayles, and a manageable debt, which he mismanaged--he also got caught in
>> the collapse of Continental currency and was too honest to wiggle out of
>> paying, as others did. A creditor told Jefferson that he was one of just
>> three "respectable" names who had agreed to make payments on their debts;
>> the rest were welching. The interest on his debts was crushing. But his
>> debts never stopped him from doing anything. He entertained lavishly at
>>     
> the
>   
>> White House because he enjoyed doing it and because he believed it to be
>> politically important. He built Monticello--twice; then he built Poplar
>> Forest; then he invested many thousands building a mill and canal at
>> Shadwell. Well aware of his position, he remained an optimist. As he wrote
>> to his daughter Martha, on January 5, 1808, in response to her letter
>> detailing the financial calamities in her husband's family: "I have now
>>     
> the
>   
>> gloomy prospect of retiring from office loaded with serious debts, which
>> will materially affect the tranquility of my retirement. However, not
>>     
> being
>   
>> apt to deject myself with evils before they happen, I nourish the hope of
>> getting along."  Don't we all.
>>
>> Henry Wiencek
>>     

ATOM RSS1 RSS2


LISTLVA.LIB.VA.US