Connie - Thanks for your post. I will look out for your book.

I have also seen the subsequent posts on Virginian/Elizabethan
pronunciation. I am sure there are words now pronounced in the US closer
to the way the Elizabethan/Jacobeans pronounced them. Just to add to the
pot I used to live near the village of Jordans, from which I believe Wm
Penn came.

I don’t have access to the W&M Quarterly but I don't think the transfer
from "Biker" to "Beggar" is likely, or necessary. The house was called
Beggars Bush from the start and there is no evidence of transformation
from an earlier name, or time for it to happen. Also Jordan would not
normally adopt and then change a neighbour's name, unless being
deliberately insulting. “Biker” suggesting “Beggar” is a possibility, but
I think Samuel was using an existing phrase, not creating an original one.

Beggars Bush is disproportionately common in the UK compared with
other "Beggars" and "Bush" names. The phrase was used by "Puritans", by
scholars at Oxford, and by many writers, and always in the same form - of
people brought down. It was also widely distributed as a place name in the
sixteenth century, almost always at marginal locations.

The ironic use of the name for a house at Jordan's Journey is entirely
consistent with the place names and the well attested use of the phrase.

Your suggestion that Samuel Jordan was a soldier who served in the
Netherlands and Ireland is intriguing. As you say it is consistent with
the archaeological records at Jordan's Journey. It is also consistent with
his decision to stand and fight during the Pamunkeys rebellion. It would
also potentially have brought him into contact with Beggar's in Bushes,
almost certainly in the Netherlands and possibly in Ireland.

There is an early reference to Beggars Bush at a marginal location in
Ireland in 1597, in connection with a “whot skirmishe” at Philipstown,
County Offaly. Phillipstown (now Daingean) developed from the plantation
policies pursued from the late 1540's. A castle described as "builded in a
grete maresse" was refortified to protect the Pale. The frontier location
is very similar to Virginia. (see the reports at
<http://celt.ucc.ie/published/E590001-001/titlepage.html>).

In the Netherlands the Protestant interest, for whom he would have fought,
adopted the word "geuz" (beggars) for their cause in the 1560/70s. It was
used in a variety of forms, of which anyone serving there would have been
aware, inlcuding “watergeuzen”, who were privateers, and "bosgeuzen" who
were guerrillas in the woods, (or bush). The name and models became
popular again in the early 1600’s. See entries for Geuz and also Geuzen
Medals in Wikipedia.

I’m working on posting all my Beggars Bush material on a website and will
post that on this forum when I do. I'm aware of one other Beggars Bush in
the USA, in Georgia. If anyone knows of any others do let me know.

Neil


On Sat, 6 Jan 2007 20:07:47 -0500, Connie Lapallo
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Hi Neil,
>
>I wrote a novel (Dark Enough to See the Stars in a Jamestown Sky) based on
>Joan Peirce and her daughter Cecily Reynolds. Cecily's second husband was
>Samuel Jordan of Jordan's Journey. Samuel was a character in the book, but
>will play a more important role in the sequel. I'm writing the sequel now,
>which will largely focus on Cecily's life, including her marriage to
>Samuel and the development of Jordan's Journey. I'm a descendent of Cecily
>from her first marriage to a Bailey.
>
>My research for the sequel is still in progress, but I can tell you that
>you're correct that there's no definitive proof (that I'm aware of) that
>Samuel was a passenger on the Sea Venture. However, he received a land
>grant on 10 December 1620 which listed him as a "an ancient planter who
>hath abode ten yeares compleat in this Colony." From this, we know he
>either came on the Patience and Deliverance (with the Sea Venture
>survivors) or on De La Warr's ships in June 1610. He appeared to have a
>strong military background (suggested by how well-fortified Jordan's
>Journey was and the similarity of its structures to those of an Irish
>bawn.) I believe he was probably in the group of mercenaries left without
>work when a truce was called in the Lowlands in 1609. His (probable)
>distant cousin Silvester was definitely on the Sea Venture, and his first
>cousin's (Joan Peirce's) husband was also on there. I think the Sea
>Venture is a sound assumption, though not definite.
>
>The name "Beggar's Bush" was probably a corruption of "Biker's Bush." The
>neighboring land was that of William Biker, and there is a Bicker's Creek
>on present day maps near there as well. Please see W&M Quarterly, April
>1941, p.180-181 for a more detailed explanation.
>
>Samuel would have pronounced his name "JERR-den." His ancestors probably
>came to England from France after the Hundred Years war. This distinct
>pronounciation survived in Virginia for many years, and is distinguishable
>from the ancient family of English Jordans who pronounce it more as we
>would expect: "JOR-den".  Given that, "Jordan's Journey" was much more
>alliterative than it appears on paper!
>
>I love the charcter of Sam Jordan and am eager to do more research on him.
>
>Best of luck. I hope this helps.
>
>Sincerely,
>Connie Lapallo
>author of DARK ENOUGH TO SEE THE STARS IN A JAMESTOWN SKY
>www.ConnieLapallo.com
>
>To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
>at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html

To subscribe, change options, or unsubscribe, please see the instructions
at http://listlva.lib.va.us/archives/va-hist.html