As Jefferson Family Historian may I suggest anyone interested in  the Jefferson
Research study, announced worldwide in the media yesterday and today, please
click on www.tjheritage.org and www.angelfire.com/va/TJTruth.

There was NO new DNA tested or needed, there is no problem with the science, the
problem lies with human beings who lie and twist results for their own agendas.
The previous poster raised the question of brother, Randolph, and the span of
Sally's children born. The period covering his France tour (where Callender said
a Tom was conceived and the Woodsons are quick to believe), the DNA tests, twice,
the Woodsons could not believe it and asked Dr. Foster do another test on another
Woodson, which was also negative.  We who have spent thousands of hours on
tracing ever move of TJ in France and in the U.S., could possibly suggest who the
France father might be, IF there was one, but anyhow, it was NOT ANY Jefferson.
Anyone ever research (we did), and find an over 5 years break between their
return and the date of conception of her REAL first child, Harriet I? Brother
Randolph had just lost his 1st wife about a year before Sally's first child. She
continued to have children through the youngest, Eston (1808) (where the DNA did
show "SOME" Jefferson DNA match with the descendant of Eston.) She had NO more
children after Randolph became married for a 2nd time in late 1808/09 and had
another son, John. Randolph was also invited to Monticello EXACTLY 9 months prior
to Eston's birth for a family gathering related to the homecoming of Thomas's
sister and Randolph's twin sister. Bricks and mortar do not make for accurate
research always. Any serious researcher should get a copy of the large 550 page
report (a scholarly report) and also purchase the TJHS book, "The
Jefferson-Hemings Myth, An American Tragedy" available soon on line from Amazon,
Barnes & Noble, etc. The latter will inform you of the nuts & bolts of this study
fiasco. A Monticello minority report author, Dr. Ken Wallenborn, alone, will
stagger your imagination of the inter workings of the Monticello study of
in-house employees. They originally did NOT include his report with their report,
but after complaints to the Chairman, TJMF, by myself and others adjustments and
apology was made. You may now read it today on the TJHS web page.

The reference to "admirers" by some in the media, was made to suggest that the
TJHS is just that. It takes an admirer (not the correct termanology.....TRUTH
SEEKERS would be more like it), to spend 15 hours per day for almost 2 1/2 years
on what I knew to be a lie and certain people had very serious agendas. I "caught
them with their hands in the cookie jar." Now competent and truthful scholars
(all volunteers, as is everyone assisting in getting the truth to the public),
have decided to slam the lid on their fingers. From some of the media articles we
can see whose fingers are hurting.....hear all that yelling, from the tops of
mountains to the valleys?

Herb Barger

Janet Hunter wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> I am surprised that the new study didn't get much press coverage, compared to
> the early DNA study.  Below I have pasted in three articles I found through
> Yahoo.
>
> I was hoping that there would be DNA analysis, which there doesn't appear to
> be, but I could be wrong. The press coverage doesn't mention any and I
> couldn't find a website for the Commission, which is never referred to by
> name.  Also having given birth to three children, one very early and one very
> late, suggesting that Randolph Jefferson's presence during the probable time
> of conception raises questions in my mind that's for sure.  However, since he
> only lived 20 miles away, I would imagine he visited quite often actually.
> Remember these folks at that time regularly would travel five or more miles
> to church every Sunday.
>
> I am particularly interested in the comment that the members of the
> Commission were Thomas Jefferson "ADMIRERS", in light of some of the comments
> on this list on the lack of objectivity in the earlier DNA study.  I myself
> can make no assessment as I long ago realized that objectivity is in the eye
> of the beholder and, my college Western Civilization history teacher's maxim
> "History is what man thinks it is".
>
> Too bad (not really) that Thomas Jeferson's detractors at the time didn't go
> so far as to bring a court case against him, with testimony from people who
> witnessed him or Randolph "naked in bed" with Sally ...as was the case with
> one of my 17th century ancestors in Accomac Co,VA, a very recent widow (Rhoda
> Fassit) who lived openly with another man (John Cropper), who was at the time
> much married to the daughter (Sarah Bowman) of one of the justices (Edward
> Bowman).  The adulterous couple were basically run out of the county and fled
> "with all moveable goods and cattle" (according to the leader of the "cattle
> drive", also deposed) to Somerset Co MD, and lived openly together, had
> children together (court records also indicate each had a child by different
> partners at the same time).  Cropper died, widow Sarah sued Rhoda because the
> illegitimate descendants got the better deal in his will.  Soon after Rhoda
> married Sarah's attorney in the suit over the will.  (See what you can find
> out when you have ancestors where the records aren't burned.)
>
> Anyway,  I always think of Rhoda and John Cropper, and servants testifying
> that they'd seen them "naked in bed" several times, when this issue of Sally
> Hemming's partner(s) comes up.  I hate to say this out loud, but such
> testimony might not even help, given the fact that one set of her descendants
> claim "uncle Randolph" as the father and another claims Thomas Jefferson --
> maybe she actually was "passed around" for lack of a better word, a thought
> which is very uncomfortable, or had successive relationships with the two
> men.  In an earlier post it was suggested, this Commission study could
> provide information on the relations between slaves and their owners (and
> their owners peers).
>
> Best Regards,
> Janet (Baugh) Hunter -- formerly at [log in to unmask]
>
> **************
> WJLA
> Friday April 13 09:25 AM EDT
>
> Scholars Say Jefferson Didn't Father Children With Slave
> A commission of scholars Thursday disputed claims that Thomas Jefferson
> fathered children with his slave Sally Hemings, and said the evidence points
> instead to Jefferson's younger brother.
>
> The findings resulted from a yearlong study commissioned by a group of
> Jefferson admirers convinced that the third president's reputation is being
> besmirched. They contradict a January 2000 report by scholars at Jefferson's
> home, Monticello, that scientific and historical evidence shows the president
> likely fathered one and possibly all of Hemings' children.
>
> The report comes more than two years after DNA test results showed that
> Hemings' youngest son, Eston Hemings, was fathered by a Jefferson male.
>
> "The circumstantial case that Eston Hemings was fathered by the President's
> younger brother is many times stronger than the case against the President
> himself," said a summary of the 450-page report.
>
> With one dissenter on the 13-member commission, the scholars bolster their
> case for the brother, Randolph Jefferson, by noting that:
>
> a slave's memoirs assert that Randolph Jefferson often spent time playing the
> fiddle and dancing with the slaves when he visited Monticello
>
> Jefferson had invited Randolph - who lived about 20 miles away - to visit
> Monticello shortly before Hemings became pregnant with Eston.
>
> Descendants of Eston Hemings passed down the story that Eston was fathered by
> "Thomas Jefferson's uncle." While both of Jefferson's paternal uncles had
> died before Eston was conceived, the report points out that Jefferson's
> daughter Martha, who ran Monticello, generally referred to Randolph as "Uncle
> Randolph."
>
> Sally's childbearing years probably corresponded to the years in which
> Randolph was a widower."Scholars often disagree, and their scholars and our
> scholars disagree," said Daniel P. Jordan, president of the Thomas Jefferson
> Foundation, which owns and manages Monticello. "People have argued about this
> for 200 years, and there is no end in sight."
>
> The commission included Jefferson scholars at such universities as Harvard,
> Yale, Stanford, Brown and the University of Virginia. They challenged several
> points made by Monticello researchers.
>
> "The biggest surprise to me was how weak the case really was," said
> commission chairman, Robert F. Turner, a professor with the University of
> Virginia's Center for National Security Law.
>
> "It's an interpretation," said Annette Gordon-Reed, a professor at the New
> York Law School who was not a commission member but whose book, "Thomas
> Jefferson and Sally Hemings: an American Controversy," makes a case for the
> relationship. "People will just have to read the Monticello report and my
> book and this and reach their own conclusions."
>
> The scholars said there is no record of Hemings or her children, other than
> Madison Hemings, ever alleging that Jefferson was the father. Madison made
> the claim in an 1873 newspaper interview in Ohio.
>
> The report acknowledged Monticello's claim that Jefferson was home when
> Hemings' children were conceived, but notes that is also when he had
> visitors, including Randolph and other relatives.
>
> "Whatever one thinks of Jefferson's character, there can be little doubt that
> he was deeply concerned about his reputation," the report said. "Yet we are
> asked to believe that Jefferson would have entrusted his reputation to the
> discretion of a 15- or 16-year-old child," which was Sally's age when the
> relationship is said to have started.
>
> "If he did that, he was essentially a child-molesting rapist, and that is far
> from what we know of him," Turner said.
>
> A dissenting report by Paul Rahe, a professor of history at the University of
> Tulsa, said Thomas Jefferson is the more likely father of Hemings' children.
>
> "It is impossible to be certain which Jefferson fathered Eston Hemings," Rahe
> wrote. "Randolph Jefferson's known patterns of behavior make him a likely
> suspect, but Thomas Jefferson is known to have been present and, in
> Randolph's case, his presence is only a likelihood."
>
> *******************
>
> Thursday April 12 2:00 PM ET
> Panel Disputes Jefferson's Paternity
>
> By MARIA SANMINIATELLI, Associated Press Writer
>
> RICHMOND, Va. (AP) - A commission of scholars Thursday disputed claims that
> Thomas Jefferson fathered children with his slave Sally Hemings, and said the
> evidence points instead to Jefferson's younger brother.
>
> The findings resulted from a yearlong study commissioned by a group of
> Jefferson admirers convinced that the third president's reputation is being
> besmirched.
>
> The report comes more than two years after DNA tests showed that Hemings'
> youngest son, Eston Hemings, was fathered by a Jefferson male.
>
> ``The circumstantial case that Eston Hemings was fathered by the president's
> younger brother is many times stronger than the case against the president
> himself,'' the commission said in a summary of its 450-page report.
>
> With one dissenter on the 13-member commission, the scholars bolster their
> case for the brother, Randolph Jefferson, by noting that:
>
> - A slave's memoirs assert that Randolph Jefferson often spent time playing
> the fiddle and dancing with the slaves when he visited Monticello, Thomas
> Jefferson's home.
>
> - Thomas Jefferson had invited Randolph - who lived about 20 miles away - to
> visit Monticello shortly before Hemings became pregnant with Eston.
>
> - Descendants of Eston Hemings passed down the story that Eston was fathered
> by ``Thomas Jefferson's uncle.'' Both of Jefferson's paternal uncles had died
> before Eston was conceived, but the report points out that Jefferson's
> daughter Martha referred to Randolph as ``Uncle Randolph.''
>
> -Sally's childbearing years probably corresponded to the years in which
> Randolph was a widower.
>
> The findings contradict a January 2000 report by scholars at Monticello that
> scientific and historical evidence shows the president probably fathered one
> and possibly all of Hemings' children.
>
> The new commission included Jefferson scholars at such universities as
> Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown, and Virginia.
>
> ``The biggest surprise to me was how weak the case really was,'' said
> commission chairman Robert F. Turner, a University of Virginia professor.
>
> Annette Gordon-Reed, a professor at the New York Law School who was not a
> commission member but whose book, ``Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings: an
> American Controversy,'' makes a case for the relationship, said of the new
> findings: ``It's an interpretation. People will just have to read the
> Monticello report and my book and this and reach their own conclusions.''
>
> The scholars said there is no record of Hemings or her children, other than
> Madison Hemings, ever alleging that Jefferson was the father. Madison made
> the claim in an 1873 newspaper interview in Ohio.
>
> The report acknowledged Monticello's claim that Jefferson was home when
> Hemings' children were conceived, but noted that that is also when he had
> visitors, including Randolph.
>
> ``Whatever one thinks of Jefferson's character, there can be little doubt
> that he was deeply concerned about his reputation,'' the report said. ``Yet
> we are asked to believe that Jefferson would have entrusted his reputation to
> the discretion of a 15- or 16-year-old child'' - Hemings' age when the
> relationship is said to have started.
>
> ``If he did that, he was essentially a child-molesting rapist, and that is
> far from what we know of him,'' Turner said.
>
> A dissenting report by Paul Rahe, a professor of history at the University of
> Tulsa, said Thomas Jefferson is the more likely father of Hemings' children.
>
> ``Randolph Jefferson's known patterns of behavior make him a likely suspect,
> but Thomas Jefferson is known to have been present and, in Randolph's case,
> his presence is only a likelihood,'' Rahe wrote.
>
> *****************
>
> Want to send this story to another AOL member? Click on the heart at the top
> of this window.
>
> Panel Says Jefferson Didn't Father Slave's Children, AP Reports
>
> Richmond, Virginia, April 12 <A
> HREF="aol://4344:30.bloombrg.389091.602536905">(Bloomberg)</A> -- A
> commission of scholars disputes claims that Thomas Jefferson fathered
> children with slave Sally Hemings, saying the evidence points instead to
> Jefferson's younger brother, the Associated Press reported.
>
> The findings, part of yearlong study by a group of Jefferson admirers, come
> more than two years after DNA tests showed that Hemings' youngest son, Eston,
> was fathered by a Jefferson male, AP said. An earlier study by a different
> group of scholars found that Jefferson fathered one and possibly all of
> Hemings' children.
>
> The 13-member commission, with the exception of one member, asserts that
> Randolph Jefferson was more likely the father. The report cites a slave
> memoirs showing that Randolph socialized with slaves at Jefferson's
> Monticello plantation and evidence that he visited shortly before Hemings
> became pregnant, AP said.
>
> Descendents of Eston passed down a story that he was fathered by ``Thomas
> Jefferson's uncle,'' AP said. Although both of Jefferson's paternal uncles
> had died before Eston was conceived, the report points out that Jefferson's
> daughter Martha referred to Randolph as ``Uncle Randolph.''
>
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