Deane--

The issue here is, I think, not whether or not your grandparents had valid
perspectives (which they certainly did) or that their views were or weren't
shared by others (they certainly were).  Instead, the historians here are
trying to point out that generalizations can't be made from the personal
accounts of only a handful of people, no matter who those people are or how
passionately they held their views.  In one regard, you're right--your
grandparents' views *are* perfectly valid primary sources.  But they are
only four such sources, and they need to be compared to many other views
before generalizations can be made.  That, among other things, is what
historians do when approaching a particular question asked of the historical
record.

On the flip side of that coin, generalizations are only that: broad trends
drawn from the analysis of a myriad of sources.  Any one source is going to
differ to varying degree from the particular generalization (how's that for
oxymoronic) being made.  There are instances where individual sources seem
to match very well, at least on the surface, the generalization which had
been drawn from the sources as a whole.  These are the individuals we often
see quoted to support a particular generalization or perspective.  We've
seen examples in the recent discussions about Virginian vs. American
patriotism.  And the particular instance of Patrick Henry's quote shows how
careful we must be about using these kinds of quotations to support a
generalization; the person being quoted might or might not be saying what we
think he or she is saying.

So we can't say "My great-grandparents didn't fight to support slavery;
therefore no southerner fought to support slavery."  But nor can we say "My
great-grandfather was a slave-owner and fought to defend that right;
therefore all southerners fought to support slavery."  You see how
ridiculous that is.  But if we look at the records of hundreds or thousands
of great-grandparents, we can start seeing trends--we can make generalities
about causes and effects, moods and beliefs.  Yet these conclusions are
always drawn with a grain of salt because we know how many exceptions there
are to the generalization.

And we know that in the end, five million people supporting a cause would
have five million reasons to do so; all we can do is try to relate those
reasons to one another.  That struggle--balancing the individual perspective
against the collective perspective--is what gives rise to so much of what is
interesting about history, in my opinion.  And it's what gives space for
intellectually stimulating conflicts, because different people have
different opinions about the evidence in front of them.  And *that's*
because each person involved--historian and historical subject alike--is a
human being and is therefore complicated and multilayered.

--Eric

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Deane [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 10:14 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary: 757.723.7104
>
>
> Well, I suppose that is why those Virginians fought for the North.
> They considered themselves Americans rather than Virginians and they
> probably also espoused the causes of the North rather than the South.
> Nevertheless, I believe that many Southerners were extremely
> patriotic about
> their individual states and, in fact, saw themselves and felt
> themselves to
> be "Virginians" first; "North Carolinians" first;
> "South Carolinians" first, etc.
> I would also like to make the point that in some ways these
> philosophical
> and political battles are still being fought.
> Today, Americans in every state of the Union are now fighting
> the idea of an
> over-big, gargantuan, ravenous, "morbidly obese", centralized
> government
> that is over regulating and over taxing its citizenry.
> In other words, States' Rights is still an issue.
> Those issues, I think, were the crux of the Civil War.
> To the folks out there who disagree with me, please do not
> tell me that the
> reflections and memories of my four, Un-Reconstructed
> Southern grandparents
> were the rantings and ravings of some old bigots.  Their beliefs had
> absolutely nothing to do with the issues of slavery and they were not
> racists.
> What some of you (notably  you liberal, college professors) call
> 'propaganda', others might call a primary source.
> The reason I keep mentioning my grandparents at this site dedicated to
> Virginia history is because I want to give them a voice in
> these matters.
> They lived through the times being discussed and they were
> hardly alone in
> what they thought and believed in.......and believed in
> strongly enough to
> go to war and fight for.
> Deane Ferguson Mills
> A 13th generation Tidewater Virginian!
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 6:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary: 757.723.7104
>
>
> > How about General Thomas and other Virginians, like the substantial
> portion
> > of Loudoun county German Quakers that fought for the Union
> and considered
> > themselves Americans above Virginians?
> >
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