All right, Mr. Eric,
I'll forward this exchange between you and me on to the List but, I promise
you, there'll be an out cry of some sort complaining about my comments and
my defenses of the South.
And, probably, someone will complain that I have littered up the List's
archives with your and my private prattlings.
Deane Mills

----- Original Message -----
From: Johnson, Eric <[log in to unmask]>
To: 'Deane' <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 4:17 PM
Subject: RE: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary: 757.723.7104


> I certainly understand!  I for one think you should feel free to respond
to
> the group--what you have to say is, in fact, relevant.  And no doubt there
> are folks who have been following along who would be sad to miss your
reply.
>
> The only other thing I might suggest is, if you haven't already, be sure
to
> send your reply to Donald Makosky as he wrote the message to which you
were
> replying here.  I wrote a separate one, and would love your reply to it as
> well (publicly if you're willing, but privately if you'd rather keep it
> private!).  Thanks--and don't let anybody curb your views, as long as you
> remain open to theirs.  :)
>
> All my best,
>
> --Eric
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Deane [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 4:11 PM
> > To: Johnson, Eric
> > Subject: Re: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary: 757.723.7104
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello Eric,
> > I replied to you privately instead of through the List
> > because I think that
> > some of the folks are tiring of this discussion regarding The
> > Wah and I do not wish to be a provocateur!
> > DFM
> >


> > > Hi, Deane--
> > >
> > > I got a copy of this message, but it looks like it came
> > straight from you
> > to
> > > me rather than through the VA-HIST group (but then, it's
> > sometimes hard to
> > > tell for sure!).  I just wanted to alert you to that in
> > case it wasn't
> > > intentional!
> > >
> > > --Eric
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Deane [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 1:10 PM
> > > > Cc: Johnson, Eric
> > > > Subject: Fw: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary: 757.723.7104
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Deane <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > To: Donald R Makosky <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 1:01 PM
> > > > Subject: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary: 757.723.7104
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Donald,
> > > > > Thank you for your nice note.
> > > > > Here I shall attempt to respond.
> > > > > You wrote:
> > > > > "Nevertheless, this is a sincere question I ask now, not a
> > > > criticism or
> > > > > put down.  What rights did Virginians in the 1850s believe
> > > > might be taken
> > > > > away from them except their right to make their own
> > decisions about
> > > > > slavery?"
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of the answer to your question is right here, in your
> > > > own words:
> > > > >
> > > > > "At that period wasn't the federal government debating
> > > > whether to make
> > > > > slavery illegal in certain territories as they applied for
> > > > statehood?
> > > > > LINCOLN SAID REPEATEDLY THAT PRESERVATION OF THE UNION
> > WAS A HIGHER
> > > > PRIORITY
> > > > > FOR HIM THAN THE ABOLITION OF SLAVERY. That is, the federal
> > > > government did
> > > > > not intend  in 1860 to abolish slavery in states like
> > > > Virginia where it
> > > > was
> > > > > already established" End of your quote.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you see here that you are saying, yourself, that a
> > > > Virginian did not
> > > > > even HAVE to fight to keep slavery going in his
> > > > state.......there was no
> > > > > threat of Lincoln trying to end slavery in Virginia.
> > > > > So, WHY did a Virginian go to war in 1861?
> > > > > I was taught, from childhood, by my grandparents who were
> > > > all Southerners,
> > > > > born within the first 10-20 years after the War, and who
> > > > lived through
> > > > > Reconstruction and all that that hell begat, that the
> > > > primary cause of
> > > > that
> > > > > war was states' rights and self-determination.
> > > > > Slavery was part of that, but only part of that since,
> > as you state,
> > > > Lincoln
> > > > > had no plans to try to abolish slavery in states that were
> > > > already slave
> > > > > states. He simply did not want new territories and new
> > > > states to be slave
> > > > > states (and good for him! Of course anyone in his right
> > mind would
> > > > > completely agree with that).
> > > > > But, I was also taught that slavery was probably coming
> > to its own
> > > > > end....that it was 'petering out' and that it would have
> > > > eventually come
> > > > to
> > > > > an end.
> > > > > Do I have any idea HOW slavery would have attritioned
> > itself out of
> > > > > existence?
> > > > > No, I do not. But, that at least is what my grandparents
> > > > thought........
> > > > > my grandparents were kind folks who were educated and
> > > > civilized people,
> > > > > non-racists (my grandmother washed my little brother's
> > > > mouth out with soap
> > > > > and made him sit, alone, in the library of her house, to
> > > > "Think about"
> > > > his
> > > > > words after he experimented with  the 'N Word' one day.
> > > > > I also have learned from my 54 years of life in the
> > South, that my
> > > > family's
> > > > > notions and ideas about that War are the way that most of
> > > > my peers say
> > > > that
> > > > > their ancestors felt about the War and why it was fought.
> > > > > It is something that was discussed a lot in the 1950's when
> > > > I was growing
> > > > up
> > > > > in Tidewater Virginia, listening to old timers talk about
> > > > things that were
> > > > > still important to them.
> > > > > And those issues still matter today:
> > > > > We Americans are having to constantly deal with a
> > morbidly obese,
> > > > glutenous,
> > > > > over-bearing, Federal government that wants to dictate to
> > > > everyone, in
> > > > every
> > > > > state of the Union, exactly how to do everything in life.
> > > > > That is why that War was fought and that is what is still
> > > > the main issue
> > > > in
> > > > > the American political arena today. The difference
> > today is that the
> > > > battle
> > > > > is nationwide and not just in the South.
> > > > > Just look at the Congress today........conservatives from
> > > > northern and
> > > > > western states aligned with southern conservatives; and
> > > > liberals from all
> > > > > states and sections (including the South) aligned with
> > each other.
> > > > > In a sense, the issues over what the Civil War was fought
> > > > are still with
> > > > us!
> > > > > Of course, race is still a factor, unfortunately. But to
> > > > many of us, race
> > > > is
> > > > > not a factor.
> > > > > I love my friends. Regardless of their color or creed.
> > > > > Period.
> > > > > Deane Mills
> > > > > York County VA
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >                  Sincerely,   Donald Makosky
> > > > > > On Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:13:54 -0400 Deane
> > <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > Well, I suppose that is why those Virginians fought for
> > > > the North.
> > > > > > > They considered themselves Americans rather than
> > > > Virginians and they
> > > > > > > probably also espoused the causes of the North
> > rather than the
> > > > > > > South.
> > > > > > > Nevertheless, I believe that many Southerners were extremely
> > > > > > > patriotic about
> > > > > > > their individual states and, in fact, saw
> > themselves and felt
> > > > > > > themselves to
> > > > > > > be "Virginians" first; "North Carolinians" first;
> > > > > > > "South Carolinians" first, etc.
> > > > > > > I would also like to make the point that in some ways these
> > > > > > > philosophical
> > > > > > > and political battles are still being fought.
> > > > > > > Today, Americans in every state of the Union are now
> > > > fighting the
> > > > > > > idea of an
> > > > > > > over-big, gargantuan, ravenous, "morbidly obese",
> > centralized
> > > > > > > government
> > > > > > > that is over regulating and over taxing its citizenry.
> > > > > > > In other words, States' Rights is still an issue.
> > > > > > > Those issues, I think, were the crux of the Civil War.
> > > > > > > To the folks out there who disagree with me, please do
> > > > not tell me
> > > > > > > that the
> > > > > > > reflections and memories of my four,
> > Un-Reconstructed Southern
> > > > > > > grandparents
> > > > > > > were the rantings and ravings of some old bigots.
> > > > Their beliefs had
> > > > > > > absolutely nothing to do with the issues of slavery and
> > > > they were
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > racists.
> > > > > > > What some of you (notably  you liberal, college
> > professors) call
> > > > > > > 'propaganda', others might call a primary source.
> > > > > > > The reason I keep mentioning my grandparents at this
> > > > site dedicated
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > Virginia history is because I want to give them a
> > voice in these
> > > > > > > matters.
> > > > > > > They lived through the times being discussed and they
> > > > were hardly
> > > > > > > alone in
> > > > > > > what they thought and believed in.......and
> > believed in strongly
> > > > > > > enough to
> > > > > > > go to war and fight for.
> > > > > > > Deane Ferguson Mills
> > > > > > > A 13th generation Tidewater Virginian!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2001 6:11 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: Hampton (Virginia) National Cemetary:
> > 757.723.7104
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How about General Thomas and other Virginians, like the
> > > > > > > substantial
> > > > > > > portion
> > > > > > > > of Loudoun county German Quakers that fought for
> > the Union and
> > > > > > > considered
> > > > > > > > themselves Americans above Virginians?
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >

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